34 Comments
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Anonymous
Hi Ramit Mistake in the previous comment - the expense ratio is 0.79%, not 0.79. My bad there. Also, The SP 500 is 0.18%. Pls also ignore the comment on the management fee at fidelity. But given the low expense ratio and the extent of the diversification, it looks very attractive, and SIMPLE. thanks c
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Brandon
Thanks for this article. It inspired me to actually take a look at the performance and prospectus information of the available investment options in my company's 401k. Lo-and-behold, found an S&P 500 index fund. After checking out the cost ratio of the mutual funds in the program and then realizing that by using the goal-directed investment model provided, I was probably spending even more than the 1.6-2% cost ratio of the individual funds, decided it was time to take more control of my investment direction and stop being lazy. One of these days I'll figure out how to get more control of the money in that 401k, but until then at least I can waste less of it on fund managers.
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wwsuccess
Ramit, I don't disagree that index funds are better than 85% of mutual funds. But since the performance of mutual funds is so easy to find, why not invest in the 15% that actually beat the market at a reasonable cost? I have been investing in Selected American Shares for many years and they've been beating the market in every time horizon, without charging exorbitant fees.
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Ramit Sethi
Because you don't know which ones will beat the market until you look backwards in time.
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Corey Jewett
Just in case Ramit's case wasn't already convincing enough: http://www.sanfran.com/home/view_story/1507/
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Gabriel
I disagree with you, Funds are a great investment if have a moderate ammount of knowledge. I didn't see you talk about the risk of the funds (debt vs. stocks), if you study the funds you want to invest in and you know the risk you can tolerate, you can make a pretty good investment. For example I invested in a couple of funds three months ago and I have managed to get a 16% return, already having paid all the operational costs. I think it's a great way of saving money, if you¡re willing to leave your money in there for 3 to 5 years and spend some time studying the funds you are going to invest in
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Lindsey
Hi Gabriel, Do you assist people with investing? I would like to ask you some questions via email if you would be willing. Thanks, Lindsey
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blogginginvestor
Good article. I will now actually look at the performance of index funds in India after reading your article. I was under impression that actively managed mutual funds are the best bet.
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Brian
While index funds are superior to actively managed funds, there is a strange paradox in that the more popular index funds become, the less likely they are to outperform actively managed funds. Index funds work on the premise that the value of all stocks is accurately reflected in their market prices - that there is no advantage to searching for mispriced stocks, something that goes on all the time with actively managed funds. As more money flows into index funds and out of active funds, the chance of finding mispriced stocks in the market increases. Eventually, the more mispricings a fund manager can capitalize on, the more likely he/she is to earn a return in excess of the market return. Bottom line is, index funds work best only when there is more money in actively managed funds.
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Reality Bytes
I am being actively sold on hedge funds. I imagine that index funds will do poorly if the market takes a downturn. So too will Mutuals? I wonder what Ramit's opinion is?
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marvin
the problem with index fund is you can't really mimic the index fund. Since all the index fund will try to buy in and buy out at the same time and that's probably several % right there lost to other mutual fund. Or they have to wait which means they are not true index fund. What's you take on this? Some financial planners suggested just opposite of what you said here.
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rob
Strangely the vast majority of people are financial illiterate, (basically a pet peeve, the reason our primary education system is so poor is that the worst enemy of a politician is an educated voter, few politicians desire an educated consumer) and trust without verification, and sadly do not want to spend even sixteen hours per year investigating the numbers and what they actually mean, and compare them to the alternatives. They just turn it over to there broker, and let him decide. That is the sole reason the bottom 85% of the mutual funds exist coupled with fads that one can talk about in social settings. Just like all investments, including Mutual Funds (MFs)– Each investment has to be audited periodically. I been quite successful with MFs, my main screen points are: 1) No loads, I always been able to find a equal to or better mutual fund with without a load (excluding 12b-1 fees, which I do try to minimize). This I believe has been widely documented one rarely gets anything for paying a load. 2) Small Mutual funds on total assets, basically it is easier to turn a row boat than a aircraft carrier, and typically the manager more hungry. 3) Low turn over rate. Basically if there is typical above average turnover, in the portfolio that tell me the manager did not do his homework. They are constantly chasing the next fad 4) Pick out the mutual fund families which close to new investors, more purchases of shares from existing investors when they have a superior year, and then everybody want to get into that specific fund. 4) Just like other investments, when it performance is below average for too long of a period for no valid reason – it is time to find a new investment, but find where you going to invest prior to selling. 6) I prefer small companies MF, and mid cap MF, and overseas MF. These investments are typically harder to investigate than large companies. If I invested in large company MF’s then I would consider buying stocks directly; but, probably would use mutual fund literature to select individual small and mid cap companies for both stock and to screen employment opportunities 5) I will probably never get out of MF unless something changes dramatically in that area., The better MF managers visit the plants, talk to the manager’s, talk to the competition, and go to the trade shows etc. That don’t just look at the written data provide by the news services.
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Victoria
Who is a good brick+mortar/online stock investment company if you are interested in investing in ETFs like the S&P 500 and QQQQ?
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typome
Hello Ramit, I was wondering what your thoughts are on ING's IRA and how they invest in their mutual funds? I normally wouldn't invest in mutual funds, but I do want to have an IRA. It's just that ING's IRA invests in mutual funds and not index funds. Do you think that is okay? Thanks for reading!
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jana
index funds also, at least where i live, have much less marketing/advertising. the actively managed ones use often very clever tactits to persiade you to buy them. probably for a reason.
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Lee Smith
The reason people invest in regular mutual funds instead of index funds is because they just don't know the difference. There is no press about it or it's not on the front page of the newspaper. Also, most people have a 401k from their job and if it is not offered in there than they will never invest in one. It would be a disadvantage to mutual fund companies to include it in retirement accounts because they would make less money per year on it.
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Sameer
Wonderful discussion... however I still feel consistent performing mutual funds will always outperform markets i.e. index funds. It is always about fund manager and investment policies.
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Kat Cramer
If you're family reveals they have a mutual fund for you is it possible to switch the money into an index fund? Also if you are headed to professional school should you let money sit in a mutual fund/ index fund until you make an income and use loans to pay for tuition? Or should you go ahead and start using the money in the fund to pay for tuition? The money does not cover the tuition in full.
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Shane
Good article! I'd like to comment one branding business tip that can "Help you get rich" and get your message to your target audience. The internet is the biggest player in the investing game nowadays. Networking, investor outreach, statistics, and most Invest Mutual work are done online. "I will teach you to be rich.com" is way too long of a domain name. A shorter name has countless attributes that I would love to breakdown for you, if you'd like. But for now I will try and keep this short. Invest.com sold for $X,XXX,XXX this week...Which makes sense because it is a short keyword term that could be used by many businesses in the financial industry. A name like InvestMutual.com at this point in time is not a $x,xxx,xxx name. It is however a short two keyword domain that could be used by many businesses in the financial industry. As more and more companies buy up exact keyword domains the prices will continue to rise, and the short sweet domains will be for those grand fathered in, or those with big checkbooks. InvestMutual.com is currently for sale for $X,XXX. Which is low for being short, strong, industry keywords. I wouldn't be shocked if it is a $XX,XXX name within the next 5 years. 5 years ago you could buy a four letter domain for $10-55. Today all four letter combinations are taken and range from $250-600. (with keyword four letters going for millions!) To sum it all up. I think if you are going to teach people how to be successful in the Mutual Investments world you should have a better domain name that is easier to remember, ranked better in google, and is EASIER FOR MORE INVESTMUTUAL (students) to find this site. Best Wishes to you all! Feel free to ask me ANY questions!
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David Purnell
You don't need a mutual fund to get just $800, which in my opinion is peanuts, for a $10k investment. Moreover, a lot of your profit will go to your "fund manager" and even if you don't make any profit, you will be charged a "maintenance fee." I would probably invest in any developing country's 1 year FD, which also gives you 7-8% returns, and is probably the most safest bang for your buck. They can also be compounded and you can also make some side money if you time the forex markets!!
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Future Millionaire
Thank you for this great blog. If i want to invest in an index, do you recommend a fund or an etf? Thank you in advance
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Shuchi
I hope, just like you read "each" email, you read "all" comments from readers. Has any of your reader ever written you that "I want to know about YOU Ramit"? Yes or no whatever, I am glad if you consider me the first one and serve my curiosity. Thank You!
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Samuel
Ramit, I love it, I agree, but I messed it up! Re-reading "I Will Teach You To Be Rich" made me double-check my Roth IRA and---dang it! I ignorantly 1) invested in a lifecycle mutual fund which 2) has a target date 20 years before I intend to "retire"! I now have found the correct *index* target date fund, and I will buy into that and start making automatic monthly investments. It has been only 2-3 years that I've owned my "not optimal" Roth IRA, so hopefully I'm still achieving the 85% Solution to my long-term finances. My question is... What should I do with the incorrect (no longer actively funded) mutual fund?
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Comments are closed.
chetan
Hi Ramit Excellent discussion above on index funds. One question is - what if you don't have enough to meet the min. investment needed to get into more than a few funds (so you want to access different index funds - not just the SP 500) . Say I have 10,000 dollars to invest. I can definitely do VFINX (Vanguard 500), and add one or two more. In contrast we have the fidelity 2040, which is an asset allocation fund. The expense ratio is 0.79, and i did not find any other expenses in the prospectus. The expense ratio is of course way higher than the SP (0.18), but I get more diversifcation. (BTW - it's interesting to note that if you buy from fidelity, there is an extra 0.16% mgmt fee. I didn't see that at Ameritrade). Maybe one could invest in the Fidelity 2040 to begin with, and then once we have enough $$ to diversify (and i mean diversify beyond the SP; Will Bernstein, Four Pillars of Investing - pg 272 shows a very diversified portfolio), one can make one's own portfilio of different index funds. Would appreciate your thoughts on this. thanks! c