Stephen Waits

Wow.

HB

Interesting reading but it is almost impossible to empathize with her situation. She has a lot of needless spending going on. She doesn’t seem to be willing to make any sacrifices to save, but complains that she has no money and that New York is expensive. There are plenty of people out there doing more with what she has — without a boyfriend’s subsidies.

Cory

Wow indeed. I agree with HB’s comment.

lordskip

sounds like the kind of girl i always end up with on blind dates.

as a 28 year old alcoholic barfly/native new yorker, even i have trouble sympathizing.

Colin

You guys are pretty rough. This behavior is very common amongst 20-somethings. At least this girl has the courage to write down her experiences and hopefully learn something from them.

Good for her & thanks for a very interesting post.

Carl

I agree with Colin, it does take a lot of courage to write it all down for everyone to scrutinize….as long as she can learn from it. It really is amazing how obvious it is to see some ways to improve, but so difficult to implement…if indeed, this is very common behavior.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I feel for the boyfriend. Sounds like he’s buying her attention. He’s most likely a poor chump she’s using for a while and will break up with again as the mood strikes her….or when he wises up and stops paying for her.

Bryce

She spent ~$350 over the course of a week including doctors visits, food and fun. It looks like she doesn’t make large investments (TV’s, cars, etc.) and she works freelance on the side – extra income. Given a decent income at her main job she is keeping herself moderately under control – and while in her youth. She has ~$390 to last her 17 days with a probable $250 coming in. That puts her right about on budget given a slight cut in expenses. (640 total as opposed to 700, a $60 shortage).

Although she didn’t mention saving money she mentioned a savings (and potentially dipping into it) – so who knows if she left that out of the article – and who said she was asking for sympathy and not just expressing her thoughts? Clearly, an artsy, emotional and open girl (see dates, bf references, BFF references, feelings imbued in writing and the fact that she’s a journalist). She has a more carefree style and personality than what looks to be the hard noses that post responses her on Ramit’s site (great site btw!) – see prior posts. Don’t get me wrong, all of you are most likely on a better 20 year savings path/plan, but that’s your style, not hers, and that’s ok. Her habits aren’t all bad, granted she does drink a bit, as well as not watch her finances closely (surprised to see more money in her account) and could curb that but she also seems to get by even through her bad habits.

All in all, I’d say she has room for improvement, but she’s not doing entirely bad for herself either.

Laura

I don’t understand why the responses are so harsh on this one . . . she never spent a penny she did not have, and as far as we can tell from this has savings and does not use credit cards. The comments act as though one should never go out to eat or out for drinks with friends. She made some unhealthy eating choices for sure but didn’t do anything lavish – took the train out to the beach, got reasonably priced drinks and only spent money she had.

Carlin

The first thing she should do is starting keeping track of her money using a checkbook. I think both times she wanted to know how much she had she checked it at an ATM, which can get you in trouble if you forget about an outstanding check or upcoming ACH payment.

The other thing I would do is I would focus on expanding my freelance opportunities to earn extra cash. I know it’s important to relax, go out with friends, etc, but it seems like she’s got a good amount of free time outside of her regular working hours that she could spend cranking out articles or tracking down opportunities. I’d also make sure I get paid ASAP for these things. Not sure how long she’s been waiting for the $250, but during 7 days I probably would have called them at least twice to see what the hold up was.

She might also want to consider a little bigger place but with adding a roommate. It might actually end up being cheaper.

After I did those things, then I’d worry more about cutting costs, but honestly if she can bump up the freelance work and make it a point to save every other freelance payment, then I think she’d be fine. Doesn’t really matter to me what she does with the money as long as she’s got enough to fall back on in an emergency and eventually retire with. If she wants to drink her weight over the course of a week, more power to her.

Moneymonk

You has a fulfilled life, I need to hang with her

Ian

Wow. One more reason not to live in New York. I know there are lots of things to do there, and people can come up with tons of reasons to go there, but when you have to live paycheck to paycheck just to survive, it’s just not worth it. I am not sure what she is working toward, but it doesn’t seem that she has some grand aspirations of a high 6 figure income anytime soon. I could be wrong.

Of course, she spent as much in one week (NOT counting what her boyfriend spent) as I spend in an entire frivolous month on myself (lunch, going out ,etc.). Yes, I live in Pittsburgh, so the prices are a lot lower, but so are the wages paid. I’m with the others about having a lack of empathy. She’s approaching 30 and still behaving like an early 20s bar hopping girl.

There’s nothing wrong with having fun, but there was a lot of extra spending going on. And the beer prices? Buy it from the distributor and drink it at home. I like to socialize, but I can socialize over water and drink with friends in the comfort of my own place. Also, it costs to sing karaoke? Dear lord, if they start charging around here, that will be the end of my karaoke singing days.

Aside from her lack of spending control which probably come from the issues she is seeing a therapist for (nobody goes just because everyone else does, that is truly foolish), New York City is a prime example of what is wrong with our country. We allow businesses to create the fad or the trends and then pony up whatever exorbitant prices they wish to charge us.

It’s time that people started keeping their money in their wallet when faced with an outrageous price. All of the beer she drank could be purchased at bars here for $4 or less per draft. There was nothing special about any of them. Perhaps the wholesale price is higher in NYC, but it’s not so much higher as to be worth $14 a draft. There had better be someone spoon feeding me my beer and wiping my chin for that price.

I’m rambling now. Great post. Looking forward to the next one.

Jane

Hi, guys. This is my diary. I want to appreciate all of the helpful suggestions you all have given me. I’m grateful especially for Bryce’s comment, as I think that sums up my situation very well. I’m actually quite amused by some of you calling me “immature,” because most people I know say I’m one of the most mature people they’ve met for my age. I don’t fancy myself “cute.” I’ve gotten to where I am (all the way from the Midwest) due to a lot of hard work and perseverance. Also, readers, I am a “woman,” not a “girl.” Even if you don’t approve of my behavior.

Granted, I was going through a crazy emotional week because half of the time I was on a break from my boyfriend (sorry if I wasn’t clear — the “ex” I mentioned is my current boyfriend: same person), but by no means am I “using” him. I love him very much. We’re still together, and have been on and off for a year. The expensive dinner he paid for was a successful attempt to win me back (what he said during the dinner was more important than its monetary value). He happens to make WAY more money than I do, which leads to him paying for me more often than not. I do admit, though, that his expensive tastes cause me to spend more than I should sometimes. We cook a lot more often now, mostly at my behest.

Just to clarify my own situation: I have a high-interest-bearing emergency fund/savings account and a 401(k), both of which I contribute to with each paycheck. Those contributions all add up to about 11 percent (maybe a little more) of my income. I have no debt. Yep, I need to quit drinking so much. And, yep, I need to start eating healthier. (That’s one thing I learned by reading the comments!) And, of course, I need to curb my frivolous spending.

I think the checkbook suggestion is the one that would most help me. I’m going to listen to my dad’s advice from 10 years ago and try that. I’ve also ramped up my freelance work, which is another thing some commenters mentioned; I’m doing consistent side work now and pitching lots of publications for extra cash. And that’s a great point that some of you made about emotional times leading to unnecessary spending. I’m going to make a point of breathing and refocusing and then (inexpensively!) picking up a book or quietly watching last week’s episode of “Mad Men” for the third time.

Another thing that some of you brought up: New York is an insanely expensive place to live. And it’s an insanely social place to live (age 30 is the new 20, etc.). In other cities, it’s much more normal to meet at a friend’s place for beer, but when one of your friends lives on the Upper East Side, one lives in Jersey, and one lives in Brooklyn, it’s much easier to congregate at one bar. Sometimes the best you can do is not order the $19 specialty pomegranate martini.

And, for anyone who’s curious, the medication I was prescribed is working out so well for me that I do much less reckless drinking and spending (and crying, btw). If any of you are feeling emotionally out of control, I highly recommend getting help for your problems. It’s worth the extra money.

Jack

GREAT response comment (I probably would’ve flipped out at some people and called them names that rhymed with ‘bouchedags’) – good luck with all of that, Jane.

Gina

Initially her situation as a single girl trying to keep up in NY by starvation & budgeting made me say, Great girl! I had to stop reading cuz it was starting to make me ill how chasing one’s social life made her spend irreponsibly. As a New Yorker, I can relate. But shopping for groceries & cooking at home does wonders. So does not running around town trying to keep up with friends, which is actually not creating one’s own life. But I wish you the best with your boyfriend, & as a writer. It’s more than planning for $, planning on creating your own identity helps shirk money-blowing temptations.

ChrisV

seriously?? she barely spends any money compared to most people in NY? I would be interested to know her salary though since that puts in all in perspective.

When i lived there in my 20s, i spent way more on cabs, dinners and drinks not mention clothing and beauty stuff (living in NYC is very expensive). This girl has NO Debt AND savings!! I dont even think she has a problem unless she makes less than $60K a year. The only think frivolous is a the gym membership if she never goes…

AC

Jane, I’ve been wanting to move to New York and this REALLY makes me want to take the plunge! I, too, commend you for an overall healthy financial life.

One thing you might try to improve your emotional/habitual spending is to go on a “spending fast” for a couple weeks. All the things you buy now, just stop. No “slices,” drinks out, take-out, new clothes, cab rides, unhealthy snack foods, etc. Just set a small budget for basic food, and don’t buy anything else. You might be surprised at how you’ve gotten into the habit of spending mindlessly, and if you can just break the habit you’ll marvel at how much less you can spend (or at least spend on things that really bring you enjoyment, not just convenience).

So if you stop considering cabs as an option, you’ll just take the subway home, no big deal. Then, if you really want to, you can gradually add these little luxuries back, one at a time, consciously. Plus if you stop drinking for a bit, you’ll become more of a lightweight and need less alcohol to do the trick.

Good luck!

RT Wolf

Bravo to Jane for your followup comment and for having the courage to publically following your spending. I agree with Ramit about conscious spending. Sounds like you’ve already got good insight into your spending, so this post is more for everyone else:

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/conscious-spending-how-my-friend-spends-21000year-on-going-out

As long as you are aware that you are spending that much money on those things and you’re ok with it, you’re doin more or less fine, especially with your side work, 401k and savings. Cheers! Good luck in the future!

D

Being a 20-something in LA, I have to say I can relate to this posting. But some of the comments here are a bit harsh. She isn’t using credit cards or racking up debt. She isn’t going to parents or friends for some extra cash, like I’ve seen in previous money diary entries. Based on her reply, she’s contributing to a 401K and a savings account. While her spending may be a bit wreckless and need some controlling, it is totally within her grasp. Her situation isn’t all that bad. By packing lunches and snacks for the day at work, she can probably save some money that way and still continue to have a social life.

Ale

It’s amazing how quick we are to judge somebody else’s lifestyle. Someone mentioned after a different post, how if they weren’t spending it wouldn’t be as much fun or interesting to read.
Spending money or not spending money is not always as easy as one might think. The psychology of having or not having money is incredible. I’ve noticed, that I tend to spend more money when I have less of it and constantly thinking of not spending money than when my I feel comfortable with my cash flow. When combined with environment (NYC) that pushes to spend, how can it be easy not to live paycheck to paycheck?
Thanks Jane for posting, if anything for reminding me that I’m not cut out to be an east coast woman, my dreams will be just that. I like these posts because it’s interesting to see the struggles EVERYONE has with money.

An

Jane, just a little suggestion, bring a pair of comfortable walking shoes, then change into your heels at work. Comfortable walking shoes include cute flats, or even sneakers. I know NYC loves fashion, but don’t sacrifice your wallet and health for it.

Oh, good job on cooking at home. Just pack your lunch and snacks to work, and even go to meet up at nice parks with friends and have a picnic (I guess that’s a new in the city ). You can do it Jane

Umchic

I love this post…and love the comments. It kind of reminds me of my last couple of weekends. I live in CT and travel to NYC and Boston often, however this weekend I was in Philly and was impressed with how well my money stayed IN my pocket. It’s so much cheaper in Philly.

Ramit, I love this blog…keep up the good work

- Mid 20s in CT, F

Anna

I’m about the same age as Jane, live in a similar city, and have similar habits. I save a bit more than 15% of my income, but after that, I spend whatever I want on whatever I want.

A lot of people my age have kids, and they spend all their money on their children. I’ve chosen to forgo both the expense and the fun that come with kids, so why shouldn’t I spend the money I would spend on daycare, carseats, and toys on things that I find fun? I don’t have expensive hobbies or electronics or weekly manicures; I just like to go out with my friends and eat in restaurants and drink beer. That’s my lifestyle; don’t tell me that I’m immature or frivolous or irresponsible just because it’s different from yours.

F

Jane,

It’s good to hear you’re back on track.
In your diary you already appear well aware of what you’re doing well and what should change. Problem is that you’re letting yourself be surprised by the moment rather than setting your rules in advance. Grant yourself a moment and draw up a budget with what you would to spend on lunches, leisure, etc. versus what you are actually spending; then come up with solutions. When cutting, focus on recurring items. I’m not telling you anything new: just do more of what you’re already doing (home-cooked dinners).

BTW, eating out less often seems like a much, much better idea than its alternatives (either spending so much on eating out that you’re unhappy about it, or having boyfriend pay for you and feeling bad about it).

Nathan

The same thing happened to me with the allergy meds. Except the copay was $50, and I took it like a sucker.

finance girl

ok, first off, buy fruit for a whole week and put a day’s worth every day in your bag. At least you will eat a couple pieces of healthy produce no matter what else your day throws your way.

ok, second, order one drink but then afterwards just make it mineral water. you will save money (and health!) in aggregate b/c you will be drinking only 1 alcoholic drink and then, more importantly, something healthy afterwards.

Think of the water as a treat to your body and the alcohol as a treat to your mood.

you will get there just have patience with yourself and start adopting little, easy healthy habits you can do every day.

imelda

These comments are ridiculous. RIDICULOUS. Look, I’m as frugal as the next PF-blog-frequenter. But I see nothing wrong with this. Absolutely nothing about this woman’s diary entry indicates that she is out of control or spending irresponsibly.

Yes, she says that she spends more than she would have liked. Don’t we all? Compare this diary to that of the 25 year old woman who wrote a money diary. That girl didn’t have enough to pay her bills, had a habit of overcharging her credit cards, asked her mother for money, then went out shopping for new clothes–all the while claiming about how she HATED her lack of independence and how stressed she was about her money!

It’s unfathomable that the 2 diary entries got similar comments. This New Yorker has savings, 2 streams of income, a rich boyfriend, and enough self-knowledge, apparently, to know how she wants to live her life and what she needs to live that way. Kudos to her, I say. She’s doing a great job with her money.

Anya

To “imelda”: That was my past diary. It was written during a particularly bad few weeks financially. I BORROWED $200 from my mother, which has since been repaid, and most certainly did not buy new clothes (reread it, honey… I said there was a temptation.)

To Jane: I applaud your courage as well! And you’re doing just fine. You have money going into savings and aren’t overspending. Bravo as well for your diplomatic response.

I hate that the first group of comments are so unnecessarily harsh. She never said she was broke, she said she was trying to save, so why crucify her for eating out and having a few drinks?? She’s 28 and seen as irresponsible bc she’s having fun, but it’s true that the response would have been different had she been a man. She’s addressing her emotional spending and issues with therapy and medication. At least she’s not in denial, and running around spending like nobody’s business! I wish people would stop assuming that the actions and habits in each diary are the way a person lives 365 days of the year. She had just broken up with her bf, and was emotional. I find it completely normal that she’s spending time with friends and having a couple cocktails (however emotionally charged they may be) to help with the distraction of a break-up. Think back, people… you’ve probably done it too.

She’s by no means the mess that everyone makes her out to be.

John

Anya –

My initial harsh comment was not so much at the spending choices – eating out here and there, overspending a bit – whatever.

The disgust came from the way the author’s relationship with money – complaining, stressing, feeling helpless, mooching off of others – and not seeing it within her own personal responsibility to change that. When I see someone recognize their situation – “I really shouldn’t spend more than $63.85 until next month” – then complain – “I continue to feel bad that he’s paying for so much” – then do NOTHING about it – “And a pina colada and a Corona, of course. We split the check four ways. My portion is $29.88″ is what disgusted me off so much.

It’s the “American Way” to buy stuff you can’t afford, and this blogger lived up to that in every way. I don’t feel bad about harsh comments at all. When you expose yourself on the internet, you better be prepared for the ugly reflection the mirror gives back. Rereading this for the second time (after reading everyone elses comments and agreeing with many of them), I would not change a word of my initial analysis.

Mary

I wonder if Jane has paid her accountant yet.

George

“Also, readers, I am a “woman,” not a “girl.” Even if you don’t approve of my behavior.”

Jane, you are most emphatically a girl. Actually, I shouldn’t insult girls like that. It was hard for me to consider what improvements you could make to your spending habits because I was consumed with loathing for your lifestyle before I finished the column. A barfly mooch who relates to guys like a 17 year old girl. And the therapy was a crowning touch. Welcome to Yuppieville, Exhibit A. Don’t breed, whatever you do. Or at least wait until you’re 60.

nowjustaminute

Jane, IGNORE all the comments from the constipated money nerds in here. Carry on with what you are doing! Dating rich boyfriends, cabs, bar hopping, concerts, hangin out with friends.. keep swimming in all that craziness, don’t think twice about it. This is life, this is now, this is yours, no one can take it away from you. Do you want to be kicking yourself a decade later for having missed out on all the fun in your youth just to save a couple more grand a year?
Except er.. stay away from medication for your emotional problems. It can only aggravate those problems in the long run. Instead settle into some healthy exercise habits that doest need a gym yet will keep you emotionally and physically healthy and robust: 1) daily deep breathing exercise aka Pranayama 2) Yogic asanas for half hour daily, especiallly Suryanamaskars 3) daily jogging for half hour, you can even run back and forth inside your apartment if you can’t schedule going outside. 4) eat antioxidant rich food daily like green tea, papayas and grapes. Believe me if you gather the DISCIPLINE for the above daily routine, you willl find yourself at the top of your game, professionally and socially, plus stay young and beautiful loking well into your forties. The key word is discipline to stick to the healthy routine. To do that, keep reminding yourself of all the rewards that such disciplne will bring you. The pain for the gain is not really a pain, is it.

Dmitri

I would have to chime in with the many others above that have come in the defense of Jane. She’s really neither totally irresponsible, nor immature, nor certainly out of the norm in terms of a standard upcoming 28 year old professional in New York City. Perhaps the dynamics of this city alone are to blame, but seriously, people should stop having a moral high ground and just let her be. As you guys noted, she has her 401K and also doesn’t abuse credit cards. All of us are on this blog in order to become more frugal, and the fact that she not only recognises it but exposes it for our views must be truly commended. I would also note that her spending behaviour is by no means restricted to women, but men are equally fickle in their spending habits.

Ramit: our thanks should go to you for stimulating this debate and for the great blog in general. I am learning a lot and am encouraging other friends to look at this, at the cost of coming across as cheap.

Dmitri