Comments on: Success and The Shrug Effect http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/ Personal finance blog for college students, recent graduates and everyone else -- including entrepreneurship -- for getting rich. Featured in the Wall Street Journal and New York Times. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 02:45:13 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Adam Bate http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-98745 Adam Bate Mon, 18 May 2009 23:43:36 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-98745 Very much enjoyed this - I can't agree with it more, especially your argument about starting with small steps toward something bigger. For those who argue that any Stanford grad will go on to be a big-time entrepreneur I suggest reading Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. It really confirms a lot of what you talk about. If you're serious about something it's surprising the leaps and bounds you can make by starting small - remember that the competition at the top is a lot less than the competition for being "average." Very much enjoyed this – I can’t agree with it more, especially your argument about starting with small steps toward something bigger. For those who argue that any Stanford grad will go on to be a big-time entrepreneur I suggest reading Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers. It really confirms a lot of what you talk about.

If you’re serious about something it’s surprising the leaps and bounds you can make by starting small – remember that the competition at the top is a lot less than the competition for being “average.”

]]> By: Barbara Saunders http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-83643 Barbara Saunders Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:58:32 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-83643 Few comments - I was thinking the same thing as Flexo - I saw my first Web site when I was about 26! Re: Ivy League schools, etc. When I was recruiting people, I used this simple "upside down" rule of thumb. I don't think getting in means "nothing"; it does suggest a modicum of intelligence and drive, and evidences a certain sort of personality. I also don't think it means "everything" in terms of traits like work ethic or ability; I looked to other accomplishments to tell me that. Wrt "talent": I don't agree that it's a bad word. I've seen failure to recognize the reality of talent used as an excuse for mediocrity, also. In most instances, you want a talented person whose cultivated the talent as well as the skills, connections, etc. The person who "works really hard" and does the politics well but doesn't have the knack is often misguided and wasting the time of themselves as well as other people. Few comments – I was thinking the same thing as Flexo – I saw my first Web site when I was about 26! Re: Ivy League schools, etc. When I was recruiting people, I used this simple “upside down” rule of thumb. I don’t think getting in means “nothing”; it does suggest a modicum of intelligence and drive, and evidences a certain sort of personality. I also don’t think it means “everything” in terms of traits like work ethic or ability; I looked to other accomplishments to tell me that. Wrt “talent”: I don’t agree that it’s a bad word. I’ve seen failure to recognize the reality of talent used as an excuse for mediocrity, also. In most instances, you want a talented person whose cultivated the talent as well as the skills, connections, etc. The person who “works really hard” and does the politics well but doesn’t have the knack is often misguided and wasting the time of themselves as well as other people.

]]> By: Josh http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-82910 Josh Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:04:14 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-82910 I agree with your post here. This is actually an argument I have with friends of mine, but on the topic of 'talent.' My friends will point out a star athlete, or a musician, or an actor, and say 'wow he is so talented.' As if he was born with it. Really? Someone being BORN with an innate ability to play basketball. I understand that the bone structure is defined by his genetics, but that's about it. I just see the word talent as a degrading word. It seems to me like an excuse people make for not being incredible 'stars' themselves. "Well I'm just not talented." They're really saying they would rather believe that people were born with whatever abilities that have in life. That belief makes it easier on them to fail. If the success of these 'stars' was based on the fact that they were in the military for 4 years (in their 20's), worked for Boeing Airlines shortly thereafter installing toilets on airplanes, and happened to enjoy music as a hobby throughout all of this time. If after that not so 'born-with-it' life, this person went and recorded a few songs which just so happened to be the hits, 'Use me up' and 'Lean on me,' wouldn't that make it more possible for anyone? Someone not so glamorous? Bill Withers worked for what he got. When I read his biography, I was astonished. Now, I do agree that 'born-with-it' talent does exist, only because I have no proof otherwise. In terms of child prodigies, they may have been born with it, or they may have just figured it out faster than others. It's hard to tell, but no matter what, they have a winner mentality. Now, if only everyone could believe that anything is possible. It would really make for a better world. I agree with your post here. This is actually an argument I have with friends of mine, but on the topic of ‘talent.’ My friends will point out a star athlete, or a musician, or an actor, and say ‘wow he is so talented.’ As if he was born with it.

Really? Someone being BORN with an innate ability to play basketball. I understand that the bone structure is defined by his genetics, but that’s about it. I just see the word talent as a degrading word. It seems to me like an excuse people make for not being incredible ’stars’ themselves. “Well I’m just not talented.” They’re really saying they would rather believe that people were born with whatever abilities that have in life. That belief makes it easier on them to fail. If the success of these ’stars’ was based on the fact that they were in the military for 4 years (in their 20’s), worked for Boeing Airlines shortly thereafter installing toilets on airplanes, and happened to enjoy music as a hobby throughout all of this time. If after that not so ‘born-with-it’ life, this person went and recorded a few songs which just so happened to be the hits, ‘Use me up’ and ‘Lean on me,’ wouldn’t that make it more possible for anyone? Someone not so glamorous? Bill Withers worked for what he got. When I read his biography, I was astonished.

Now, I do agree that ‘born-with-it’ talent does exist, only because I have no proof otherwise. In terms of child prodigies, they may have been born with it, or they may have just figured it out faster than others. It’s hard to tell, but no matter what, they have a winner mentality. Now, if only everyone could believe that anything is possible. It would really make for a better world.

]]> By: Barbara Saunders http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-74724 Barbara Saunders Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:48:19 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-74724 It's also easy to get into the trap of comparison - and only comparing oneself to the people whose lives are enviable. If you are 30 and have no money, don't compare yourself to the 29-year-old millionaire. Compare yourself to the 50-year-old who has less than you do, and you have no excuse to let self-pity be your activity! It’s also easy to get into the trap of comparison – and only comparing oneself to the people whose lives are enviable. If you are 30 and have no money, don’t compare yourself to the 29-year-old millionaire. Compare yourself to the 50-year-old who has less than you do, and you have no excuse to let self-pity be your activity!

]]> By: Matt http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-63792 Matt Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:00:42 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-63792 "I saw a study sometime this past year which stated that 10 years removed from school, the average Ivy League grad and the average state school grad had achieved surprisingly similar levels of success (income, job level, etc.)." --> As a recent graduate of one of the "final four" schools and a bit of a basketball nut, I'd like to direct you to an alternative bracket that directly refutes this: http://www.payscale.com/2008-march-madness-predictions.htm "The school a person attends is irrelevant; what matters is how they take advantage of their opportunities and how hard they work." --> I'm pretty close to agreeing with you on this one after seeing so many kids at my school end up twiddling their thumbs after a $150k+ education and I see others starting their own (VERY SUCCESSFUL) businesses and raking in tons immediately after graduating. However, you've got to realize that someone who comes into college uninspired but surrounded by a lot of people determined to do well has a much higher chance of being inspired to change their life and be successful. For example, I think i would not be in the same position in life that I am now if I had gone to one of the "16-seed" schools. Did I come from an Ivy league pedigree? No one in my family that I know of has ever been a millionaire (or really close), and no one has gone to an Ivy League school (grandparents, cousins, aunts uncles, etc.). I worked hard in high school, admittedly played the game right in places, and made it to a great private institution. It's all about taking advantage of the opportunities -- and EVERY situation is an opportunity if you look at it the right way. “I saw a study sometime this past year which stated that 10 years removed from school, the average Ivy League grad and the average state school grad had achieved surprisingly similar levels of success (income, job level, etc.).”
–> As a recent graduate of one of the “final four” schools and a bit of a basketball nut, I’d like to direct you to an alternative bracket that directly refutes this: http://www.payscale.com/2008-march-madness-predictions.htm

“The school a person attends is irrelevant; what matters is how they take advantage of their opportunities and how hard they work.”
–> I’m pretty close to agreeing with you on this one after seeing so many kids at my school end up twiddling their thumbs after a $150k+ education and I see others starting their own (VERY SUCCESSFUL) businesses and raking in tons immediately after graduating. However, you’ve got to realize that someone who comes into college uninspired but surrounded by a lot of people determined to do well has a much higher chance of being inspired to change their life and be successful. For example, I think i would not be in the same position in life that I am now if I had gone to one of the “16-seed” schools.

Did I come from an Ivy league pedigree? No one in my family that I know of has ever been a millionaire (or really close), and no one has gone to an Ivy League school (grandparents, cousins, aunts uncles, etc.). I worked hard in high school, admittedly played the game right in places, and made it to a great private institution. It’s all about taking advantage of the opportunities — and EVERY situation is an opportunity if you look at it the right way.

]]> By: Bill http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-62348 Bill Wed, 21 May 2008 16:07:17 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-62348 On Not Failing, and The Shrug Effect: I come from a working-class background, I went to a public highschool, no college, and I currently make little more than minimum wage. Many of my friends come from the same background, and I'm starting to notice the main thing that separates the successful from the failing: attitude, ambition, common sense. Most of my peers are satisfied to blame any number of factors for their poverty ("I could never afford college, so none of this is going to change", "No one will hire me because of my tattoos", and the always punk-rock "I'm being screwed over by a corrupt capitalist system"), and they never look for what CAN be done. Most of their free time is spent complaining about "the system", and getting really really drunk. I'm not "rich", I'm still lower working class, but instead of being a fatalistic prick about the situation I do what I can while I'm still young. A lot of that is common sense: don't impregnate anyone, don't drink or use drugs to the point of jeopardizing your career or finances, stay out of jail, credit cards are stupid. My current savings plan gets me where I need to be (I take a yearly vacation, own a new computer), and after reading this website, I'm going to start putting money away towards my wedding and mortgage payment. It's not hard to live on minimum wage if you're not failing... all it takes is a bit of restraint and common sense. After a while, you're not making minimum wage anymoe. If you need to, move to a city with a lower cost of living. This isn't rocket science, it's just hard work. And to the gentleman above, babbling about what ammounts Eugenics: the "genetic and socioeconomic realities of the world"? You are a tool. According to your statistics, I should be stealing someone's car right now. I hope whatever job you have doesn't give you the authority to manifest those attitudes through your companies hiring practices. Tool. On Not Failing, and The Shrug Effect: I come from a working-class background, I went to a public highschool, no college, and I currently make little more than minimum wage. Many of my friends come from the same background, and I’m starting to notice the main thing that separates the successful from the failing: attitude, ambition, common sense. Most of my peers are satisfied to blame any number of factors for their poverty (”I could never afford college, so none of this is going to change”, “No one will hire me because of my tattoos”, and the always punk-rock “I’m being screwed over by a corrupt capitalist system”), and they never look for what CAN be done. Most of their free time is spent complaining about “the system”, and getting really really drunk. I’m not “rich”, I’m still lower working class, but instead of being a fatalistic prick about the situation I do what I can while I’m still young. A lot of that is common sense: don’t impregnate anyone, don’t drink or use drugs to the point of jeopardizing your career or finances, stay out of jail, credit cards are stupid. My current savings plan gets me where I need to be (I take a yearly vacation, own a new computer), and after reading this website, I’m going to start putting money away towards my wedding and mortgage payment. It’s not hard to live on minimum wage if you’re not failing… all it takes is a bit of restraint and common sense. After a while, you’re not making minimum wage anymoe. If you need to, move to a city with a lower cost of living. This isn’t rocket science, it’s just hard work.
And to the gentleman above, babbling about what ammounts Eugenics: the “genetic and socioeconomic realities of the world”? You are a tool. According to your statistics, I should be stealing someone’s car right now. I hope whatever job you have doesn’t give you the authority to manifest those attitudes through your companies hiring practices. Tool.

]]> By: Ramit Sethi http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-59578 Ramit Sethi Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:19:55 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-59578 CorporateAmerica, you are so far off it's not even funny. But enjoy your "we can't control anything" perspective...I'm sure it will work really well for you. CorporateAmerica, you are so far off it’s not even funny. But enjoy your “we can’t control anything” perspective…I’m sure it will work really well for you.

]]> By: CorporateAmerica http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-59547 CorporateAmerica Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:54:03 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-59547 "Was it innate intelligence? Was it a photographic memory? Probably not." Wrong. SAT scores might as well be used in place of IQ, the correlation is so high. Also, getting good grades in school at a young age ( which a high IQ person is more likely to do ) is met with positive feedback. Unless you're born into the out of sight upper class, chances are you life arc is already set in stone with conception by the rigid meritocracy that is American college admissions. Did you know that impulse control is highly correlated with IQ? How about sex drive ( less kids/no teenage pregnancy == $ )? Yes, the average person is capable of becoming a middle class millionaire through disciplined, longterm investment, but the vast majority are born without the genetics needed to become elite. A few are born short the means to live without welfare. This doesn't mean society should seek to negate the overwhelming, innate advantages students at elite universities, like Stanford, possess -- that would be bad for everyone. But it does mean that people like you should stop sugar coating the genetic and socioeconomic realities of the world we live in. The person with the Harvard MBA is very different from the person who shrugged, and it all starting in the womb. “Was it innate intelligence? Was it a photographic memory? Probably not.”

Wrong. SAT scores might as well be used in place of IQ, the correlation is so high. Also, getting good grades in school at a young age ( which a high IQ person is more likely to do ) is met with positive feedback. Unless you’re born into the out of sight upper class, chances are you life arc is already set in stone with conception by the rigid meritocracy that is American college admissions.

Did you know that impulse control is highly correlated with IQ? How about sex drive ( less kids/no teenage pregnancy == $ )? Yes, the average person is capable of becoming a middle class millionaire through disciplined, longterm investment, but the vast majority are born without the genetics needed to become elite. A few are born short the means to live without welfare.

This doesn’t mean society should seek to negate the overwhelming, innate advantages students at elite universities, like Stanford, possess — that would be bad for everyone. But it does mean that people like you should stop sugar coating the genetic and socioeconomic realities of the world we live in.

The person with the Harvard MBA is very different from the person who shrugged, and it all starting in the womb.

]]> By: lokerman http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-41961 lokerman Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:46:14 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-41961 Hello It's a quick video I compiled to show off the Dervish's dance from the guildwars nightfall <a href="http://businessshit.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">party</a>. The dance the dervish does is the same one that Christoper Walken did in the clip for Fatboy Slims' - Weapon of choice music video (hence the music used) Post your comments please Mine youtube.com/watch?v=j_aONMdkzxU Original for those that may not have seen it youtube.com/watch?v=0WW8flwpH-Q Hello

It’s a quick video I compiled to show off the Dervish’s dance from the guildwars nightfall party.
The dance the dervish does is the same one that Christoper Walken did in the clip for Fatboy Slims’ – Weapon of choice music video (hence the music used)

Post your comments please

Mine
youtube.com/watch?v=j_aONMdkzxU

Original for those that may not have seen it
youtube.com/watch?v=0WW8flwpH-Q

]]> By: SR http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-39901 SR Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:24:57 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/success-and-the-shrug-effect#comment-39901 You might be interested in "Mindset" by Carol Dweck (also of Stanford). It is a very readable analysis of the difference between the "fixed" and "growth" mindsets. Guy Kawasaki did a nice review of it earlier this year (see http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/03/the_effort_effe.html). You might be interested in “Mindset” by Carol Dweck (also of Stanford). It is a very readable analysis of the difference between the “fixed” and “growth” mindsets. Guy Kawasaki did a nice review of it earlier this year (see http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/03/the_effort_effe.html).

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