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Smart Women Marry For ______

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“I’m going to marry for love” is such a deeply held belief that’s become an invisible script. After all, who wouldn’t want to marry someone they love?

But “love marriages” are only a recent development. Throughout history, marriages were made for strategic alliances, economic gain, familial ties, and a variety of other unromantic reasons.

The push and pull of our modern love-based thinking sometimes clashes with our history.

For example, I know a lot of guys who think that once they start making “serious money,” women will be more interested in them. Inevitably, even if they do start making a lot more, they aren’t any more successful with women. What really makes a difference in their ability to attract a partner are other, ancillary factors that money enables.

I recently read this article with interest. The author, Ginger, makes the point that money is a definite factor that women should consider when they choose their long-term partners. She was very careful to present a nuanced argument and carefully include caveats.

The result? Comments like this:

“WE TRUELY LOVE EACH OTHER BUT SINCE I COULD NOT IMPROVE MY CAREER FAST ENOUGH, WITHIN IN 3 MONTHS, SHE DUMPED ME. I AM NOT A BUM BY ANY STANDARD AND WORK A GOOD JOB 40 TO 60 HOURS A WEEK. SHE HAS HER HEART SET ON RETIRING EARLY AND BEING RICH. I THINK SHE IS MAKING A BIG MISSTAKE. SHE MAY BECOME RICH, WHO KNOWS, BUT SHE WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE TO ENJOY IT WITH THAT WILL TREAT HER THE WHY I DID. MONEY IS AN ILLUSION AND WILL NOT MAKE YOU HAPPY.” – Michael

“And i would suggest that all men insist upon a pre-nup and marry based on looks and sexual vigor. And just like in the stock market, once there is a drop in “performance” I’d suggest dropping your current holdings and find new assets.” – Patrick B.

“Well, 1.2 billion People live on less than $1 dollar a day….I think you (and I) should be very thankful for what we have. It sounds like you do not love nor accept your partner for who he is….” – willdation

Notice how people bring their own opinions to the discussion — often weakly held, stereotypical beliefs — without even considering the argument.

What do you think? Vote with a tweet:

QUESTION: How important is money when you’re evaluating a potential partner? How important should money be? And is it different for men and women?

Examples (for both genders): If you find out that your girlfriend/boyfriend has $30,000 of debt, how would you react? What if you’ve been dating for 4 years?

How does your partner’s income play into your decision to be with them?

And if smart women marry for _____. What do smart men marry for? Hint: The answer cannot just be “love.”

Leave your thoughts below.

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319 Comments on "Smart Women Marry For ______"

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Dorie Morgan
4 years 3 months ago

Love is a response to our highest values. If the ability to earn money is something we value, once can marry for love and still marry for money, Smart men and women marry for shared values.

Amy
Amy
4 years 3 months ago

Agree 100%.

Sarah S
Sarah S
4 years 3 months ago

100% agree with this. I think smart women never marry for just one reason. Smart women marry when they have considered compatibility and shared values on a much larger scale than bank accounts or physical attractiveness.

Rachel
Rachel
4 years 3 months ago

Almost exactly what I was going to say. Love vs money is something of a false dichotomy. And it goes for the romance side as well, love without shared values can fall down around your ears at a bump in the road too.

Debbie
Debbie
4 years 3 months ago
Amen Dorie. I was just thinking that same thing when I encountered the option to tweet a vote for one or the other. It isn’t one or the other. For a rational woman who falls in love with a wealthy man; if he is wealthy because of his own success (as opposed to inheritance or political power); it isn’t the fact that he has money but the attributes he possesses that made him able to earn it: intelligence, drive, rationality, self-assertiveness, ambition, etc. And the pride that he earned along with his fortune. That is what she falls in love… Read more »
Peter
Peter
4 years 3 months ago

Debbie, isn’t your “thought experiment” rather too blunt?

How about a choice between a penniless artist who ebulliently loves life, art and you (not necessarily always in that order) and your dyno entrepreneur?

Who would you choose then? Based on what criteria?

Mia
Mia
4 years 3 months ago

Love alone can’t pay bill and put meal on the table but love can propel us to make good decisions with money. we won’t let our child starve because we don’t have money to buy food. different people equate love in different ways.

Hungry Hippo
Hungry Hippo
4 years 3 months ago

Agree with “love can propel us to make good decisions with money” — my husband didn’t even have a bank account when we met, let alone a retirement fund. But as we realized that we wanted to spend our lives together, he took steps to help secure our financial future.

Carl
Carl
4 years 3 months ago

….aaaaand unsubscribe. This gender stuff is
either offensive or merely inane.

Tyler F
Tyler F
4 years 3 months ago

But you’re not sure which?

Caldwell
Caldwell
4 years 3 months ago

“We’ll miss you, Carl.”

— Nobody

Sarah
Sarah
4 years 3 months ago

I agree.

Inanity and offensiveness unfortunately drive pageviews. Ramit is no social scientist or psychologist.

@Tyler: Some of the stuff is inane, and some of it is offensive. Some is both.

@Caldwell: It’s a problem if we only look for affirmations of our beliefs.

Susie
Susie
4 years 3 months ago
“Smart” women? Smart women like who? This seems to have less to do with smarts and more to do with forming a personal opinion on other peoples ways of thinking. The woman who marries for love is no smarter than the woman who marries for money, I just agree with one more than I agree with the other. I’d be more interested in seeing some info on actual smart, independent, successful women, and seeing how that ‘love or money’ either or thing plays out there. Plus, money is a HUGE sore spot in marriages, in some cases it can make… Read more »
Dick
Dick
4 years 3 months ago

Hi Susie,

No you are not being nit-picky …you are just being sensible. And smart…

Cheers.

Judith
Judith
4 years 3 months ago

You just wrote exactly the same argument the article Ramit linked to was about…

Q
Q
4 years 3 months ago
there is two aspects to this: 1. how you handle money/how important money is to you. That’s a value thing, I would like my partner to share my values… makes a relationship more sustainable. 2. how naive you are. There are people out there studying exotic subjects that will never pay the rent (in german we call that “breadless art”). Sucks when you’re 35 and have two children from two different partners. I would not want a partner that has different values (I tried… lasted 3 years – was happy to move on) – Love goes, money stays. There is… Read more »
T. AKA Ricky Raw
4 years 3 months ago
I think the problem is that even a lot of women who supposedly “marry for love” are still marrying for money but in a better-rationalized way. For example one woman may marry a billionaire she’s not attracted to and say she “married for money.” Another woman may say she married someone who she found funny and handsome and had chemistry with. However before she went on a date with him she screened out every person below a certain educational threshold, every person with a dead end career, every person who made below a certain annual salary, and every person who… Read more »
Susie
Susie
4 years 3 months ago

yep, yep, triple yep to all this ^

Valerie
Valerie
4 years 3 months ago
That’s right. I’m a woman and 100% I admit I screen in similar ways before I seriously entertain the guy as relationship material. And I continue to observe their money habits too as I’m dating them. The guy doesn’t have to be rich and he doesn’t have to be the sole breadwinner either, but anybody worth their salt knows that finances can make or break a marriage, especially where kids are involved. I can’t see myself marrying someone I don’t love, but more practical things like money, shared values, etc. make up the foundation of a stable relationship/marriage. Let’s stop… Read more »
Nan
Nan
4 years 3 months ago
I agree. Before I even started reading the comments, the first thing that came to mind was “potential”. I married my husband when we had just finished school, and although we had both held a few decent internships and jobs in the short term, income wasn’t totally relevant. Regardless, though, the *potential* was there. I’m certain the relationship wouldn’t have started, or continued, if we hadn’t met certain lifestyle/ambition thresholds in each other. Money certainly wasn’t the only crux – compatibility for the long haul, family values, and religious affiliations all played into our relationship. We’ve both agreed that divorce… Read more »
Janet Kenneth Brown
Janet Kenneth Brown
5 months 17 days ago
Hello Every One, I am mrs Janet Kenneth Brown From texas U.S.A, I quickly want to use this medium to share a testimony on how God directed me to a Legit and real loan lender who have transformed my life from grass to grace, from being poor to a rich woman who can now boast of a healthy and wealthy life without stress or financial difficulties. After so many months of trying to get a loan on the internet and was scammed the sum of $6,200 i became so desperate in getting a loan from a legit loan lender online… Read more »
K
K
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for overall compatibility — you’ve got to consider everything — love, lust, religious views, financial goals/management, etc. People are often initially attracted to each other based on mutual interests, such as a shared hobby. Why shouldn’t compatible views on finances be just as important as your shared love for a football team?

Judith
Judith
4 years 3 months ago

Second that.

Also, I never understood why it has to be marrying for love OR marrying for money, as if those two were mutually exclusive. I’d say they are just part of a list of things you’ve got to consider (see above).

Stephen
Stephen
4 years 3 months ago
I’m a guy but I’d think the really smart women don’t go after either love or money, at least not directly. How people manage their finances plays a huge part in how their life runs by, so going by compatibility, if you yourself are financially sound, you normally end up finding compatibility in someone who is also financially sound, or (and its a big or) someone who can or is becoming financially sound with the right goal. The biggest thing about being financially sound is having that goal. I’ve seen people squander things away until they realised what they want… Read more »
Agota
Agota
4 years 3 months ago
I don’t know, this whole “marry for love” vs. “marry for money” thing is a bit strange for me. I mean, if you marry someone who you love, but who is completely irresponsible with money and has no career ambitions whatsoever, is that smart? That would probably look great in a romantic comedy, but in real life, marrying someone who’s not responsible with money isn’t a very smart decision, since you will have to share a lot of financial responsibilities together, from house to kids. However, if you don’t love someone and marry him because he’s a billionaire, is that… Read more »
Valerie
Valerie
4 years 3 months ago
To answer your questions: How important is money when you’re evaluating a potential partner? How important should money be? And is it different for men and women? Money should be important because money issues are one of the biggest issues married couples seem to have. Especially if the woman plans on having kids, money habits and earning potential is important. It’s not so important if she wants to keep working on her career and doesn’t really want kids. I think men weigh it a little less than women do, but they probably SHOULD weigh it more. That’s why you keep… Read more »
Brandi
Brandi
4 years 3 months ago

Women marry for security! it isn’t the cash that matters but knowing he will do anything to keep providing in a way your family has decided to live in terms of lifestyle. Also the security in knowing he might find other women more attractive but won’t do anything with it.

Katherine Chalmers
Katherine Chalmers
4 years 3 months ago

Excellent point!

Penelope
Penelope
4 years 3 months ago

I second this! Especially if you expect to take some time off from work for family, it helps if you can count on your spouse to support you.

Gumnos
Gumnos
4 years 3 months ago

Before marrying, smart *people* (not just women) do a cost-benefit analysis of multiple factors including but not limited to: love, finances, personalities, life goals, religious & non-religious values, etc.

Do I love my spuse? Certainly. Do our financial views align? That too. Do our personalities jive? You bet. Do we share similar life goals? Mostly. And religious values? Yep.

Creating a false dichotomy between love and money only serves to muddy the waters.

Tim Rosanelli
4 years 3 months ago

Marry for character. Find a spouse that has integrity, honesty, and resilience because when the chips are down, this will make your marriage survive. As for money, nothing is worst for you financially then divorce so it’s better to marry someone who takes that for better or for worse vow serious and you take it seriously yourself.

Meg
Meg
4 years 3 months ago
I met my husband at 19 and married him 18 months later. Here’s what was important to me, in hindsight: 1. I wanted to marry a man at least as smart as I was. My IQ is in the top 2% of the distribution, I wanted someone who could be an intellectual counterpart to me. Luckily, more men than women are that smart, and I was at an elite university. So I got that. 2. I wanted someone of a reasonably intellectual bent. I talk and think a lot abut ideas, and I ideally wanted someone who was also excited… Read more »
Dane
Dane
4 years 3 months ago
I really, really like this comment. I applaud you for evaluating what was important for you and casting aside the unrealistic idea of equality in marriage, something I think is as much of a BS script as “everyone should buy a house”. And before anyone gets upset – determining equality in marriage is like tracking the amount of touchdowns in a baseball game. It’s a non-starter… marriages are about building a family – even a family of two – not making sure everyone is equal. It’s amazing how many young women from traditional families (especially here in the South) really… Read more »
Meg
Meg
4 years 3 months ago
From what I’ve read, traditional (man earner, wife homemaker) marriages tend to be the happiest and least prone to divorce, so that did play a bit of a role in my thought process. My parents have been married for a long time, but I see how unhappy my mother’s score keeping makes her. She’s aware that my dad does very little housework, and it bothers her. I choose to ignore that my husband does very little housework and I do the bulk of it. In exchange, I push my husband to work more than I do. He works full time,… Read more »
Dane
Dane
4 years 3 months ago

” My parents have been married for a long time, but I see how unhappy my mother’s score keeping makes her. She’s aware that my dad does very little housework, and it bothers her. I choose to ignore that my husband does very little housework and I do the bulk of it.”

You’re a wise woman. Dale Carnegie and many happily married women who have come before you would be proud.

Jay
Jay
4 years 3 months ago

I’m surprised that you would have considered converting to Orthodox Judaism if you wanted to marry a breadwinner. In Orthodox Judaism the woman is the breadwinner and runs the house since her husband goes to yeshiva (kollel) all day.

Meg
Meg
4 years 3 months ago

Depends on the branch you’re looking at. In the Hareidi (far right) community, yes, but they usually aren’t too hot on converts anyway. Not in the Modern Orthodox community, though they do have the problem of universal private school tuition.

But there’s relatively few places you can find conservative gender roles upheld as normative these days.

John
John
4 years 3 months ago
I come from a Mormon background and went to Brigham Young University. At school this mindset is still present. Plenty of students there are said to be working on an Mrs degree and happen to get another degree in the process. I was on the other side of this perspective. 1 I wanted to marry someone that is both smart enough and able to raise children. Someone with a desire to be a Mother and Homemaker. I wanted to be able to be a breadwinner for my future family. I wanted a wife that had the counterpoint of wanting to… Read more »
Jessica
4 years 3 months ago
I think there’s a big assumption being made here that men are always the primary breadwinners. Before my husband and I got engaged, we had already discussed and were in agreement on the fact that my career was very important to me and I planned to work for as much of my life as I could, whereas he very much wanted to be a stay-at-home parent as soon as possible. I was the saver; he was the spender. At the moment we are both working (no kids yet), and I make more than him. So to suggest that I somehow… Read more »
K00kyKelly
4 years 3 months ago
I was thinking this exactly. The invisible script behind this whole post is that the man is the breadwinner. In the US women are half of all U.S. workers and mothers are the primary breadwinners or co-breadwinners in nearly two-thirds of American families (source: The Shriver Report). Of course a sizable portion of these women may still consider their husbands the primary breadwinner, but that’s just speculation. I’d say smart people marry for money in the sense that it is one of the few things in a relationship you can’t work around. If your partner is a spendthrift it doesn’t… Read more »
Erin
Erin
4 years 3 months ago

I think its smart to marry for a combo of compatibility and love. I’ve been in love with people who I was not compatible with long term, including financially. I wanted to end up with someone who I loved, but who spent money like me, hated all the same people, and shared my values in other important areas. Didnt want to end up fighting with my partner regularly about money/sex/drinking/health/etc habits.

Chris Parsons
Chris Parsons
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for BOTH love and money. Both are necessary. Love without money is stressful and unsatisfying. Money without love is miserable and unsatisfying.

Smart men marry for good looks, a woman than builds him up, and love. Love is important, but you don’t fall in love with a 4 when you are an 8…

The Feminists (especially the ugly ones) will hate this, but in my opinion a wife has 2 primary duties – to support her husband and to look good.

Judith
Judith
4 years 3 months ago
If you want your wife to be an ornament, then yes, that should be what you’re looking for. If a man has different ideas of what a family should be like, he should look for other things in a woman (e.g. if he needs her to contribute to the family income to be able to focus on his chosen career path or get a PhD). However, many sexist men forget that women come with different personalities, too, so you’d have to check not only her looks and if she’s supportive, but if she’s a match in hobbies and values as… Read more »
Ellen
Ellen
4 years 3 months ago

How’s that theory working out for you, Chris?

Ellen
Ellen
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women (and men) marry for character. Character is not only shared moral/life values, but the intestinal fortitude to stick by those values when they are inconvenient or even contradict your emotions. Character is also the maturity to delay gratification when necessary for a greater good, and create a plan and take action to follow it.
These qualities may or may not lead to wealth, but they are strongly associated with wealth, and necessary for long-term success in marriage, business, effective charity work, or any worthwhile endeavor.

Erin
4 years 3 months ago
I think it is too general to evaluate how important ‘money’ is when choosing a mate. I think attitude/values about money and the way a person handles their money is far more important than how much is in the bank, in terms of choosing a long-term partner. I don’t think this is different for men vs. women. A couple, ideally, should have compatible values about handling money, whatever those values are. I don’t think it’s accurate to say smart women marry for love or money. I think smart women marry for happiness. Love and money are part of that, as… Read more »
Lindsay Lennox
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women make their own money, and love who they want. If they marry, it’s to raise children together. So: smart women marry good fathers, if they marry at all.

Mrs. Money Mustache
4 years 3 months ago
Ha! Excellent. 🙂 For me, marriage was also about having kids. I married for Happiness. Since I met my husband when we were both 19 (although we married at 30, when we decided to have kids), I had no way of knowing how things would work out money-wise. For me, it turned out that having a happy, optimistic partner who is hardworking, responsible, and honest was what made me happy, and made me feel more confident and happy in my own life. Confidence, optimism and love of life will usually lead to great things. These are actually hard traits to… Read more »
mustardseed
mustardseed
4 years 3 months ago

I agree with this 100%! Any woman who marries for love, money, or security isn’t very smart.

Lindsay Lennox
4 years 3 months ago

And, what counts as a ‘good father’ varies – some women really want to be able to stay home and raise kids full-time, and for those women, ability to provide financially (in a stable, predictable manner) is HUGE in a potential marriage partner. Some women want to have children but don’t want to do primary caregiver duty, and for those women, a guy who will be genuinely happy staying home with kids (and good at caring for children) could be a great match.

K00kyKelly
4 years 3 months ago

Love this!! Spot on.

MaryNYC
MaryNYC
4 years 3 months ago
If everyone “brings their own opinions to the conversation,” so will I. Marriage is an antiquated social construct and has no place in MY world. Others are welcome to do as the please, of course. Clearly, marriage is a business transaction although sadly, most people refuse to acknowledge it or to let it float to the top of their consciousness. People can live together; when they enter into a marriage transaction, they are implicitly agreeing to try to acquire new assets and … stuff. Just as in any business, there are complicated and even messy legal consequences. No thanks.
Christopher Mancini
4 years 3 months ago

I am sensing you experienced a terrible divorce as a child? Your statements are down right depressing and sad.

Dane
Dane
4 years 3 months ago

To be fair, she’s right – to a lot of people, that’s all that marriage is now. Keep a close eye on gay marriage, especially with men… don’t be surprised when you see wealthy gay men refusing to get married and advising against it (once it is widely legal) due to the family court ramifications of it.

MaryNYC
MaryNYC
4 years 3 months ago

What, these comments in reply to me? No, no trauma in my family. Happily married parents etc. It just seems such a bad and even absurd idea.
I read Ramit’s emails because they strange and funny and oddly irrelevant to me, but I guess he pushed a few buttons with the gender-roles topics.

MaryNYC
MaryNYC
4 years 3 months ago

It IS the year 2012, after all.

C
C
4 years 3 months ago

Love, I make my own money

Judith
Judith
4 years 3 months ago

Yup, that’s the best way.

Amy
Amy
4 years 3 months ago
I agree with the person who said “smart men and women marry for shared values”. My fiance has probably close to $30k in debt. Most of it student loan debt that was not particularly avoidable (and he worked the entire time he was in school at nearly full time hours). He works hard to pay off debts he has accrued. If he was a spendthrift and had that much in consumer debt, we might have a problem. But he’s not, and our values with money are compatible. And thankfully I make enough to balance out the hard numbers. If he… Read more »
Jay
Jay
4 years 3 months ago

“If he made more than me but spent money on crazy and frivolous things we couldn’t afford, we wouldn’t be compatible.”

I agree with that. And, for me, being able to afford the crazy and frivolous things doesn’t make any difference, we wouldn’t be compatible if he spent money like crazy.

Jay
Jay
4 years 3 months ago
I’m not a woman, but here I go offering an opinion on the subject… Everyone would be lying if they said that money doesn’t matter in marriage(not love, marriage). I don’t believe that it’s as simple as love or money – can’t it be a balance of both? No? Well, it ought to be! In the grand scheme things it doesn’t nor should it matter, but it does. The amount of money someone has(saved or otherwise) doesn’t weigh as much as how financially sound and responsible they are which correlates back to how much they may have, but again the… Read more »
Vicki
Vicki
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women marry for stability. Stability of character, work ethic, emotional and psychological stability. These characteristics create prosperity for the family, and a peaceful, happy relationship. Beware of scatty guys who have an unstable work history, and unstable relationship history, a lot of drama and chaos in their lives. If he brags about saving up for a down payment on his own home, but then the next week he goes out and buys himself a brand new truck instead – then yes, he’s financially immature and therefore unstable. If he shows up in your life after a very recent divorce… Read more »
Judith
Judith
4 years 3 months ago

Wow, that sounds as if you’re talking from experience…

Kathy555
Kathy555
4 years 3 months ago

Completely agree, Vicki.

Emma Chace
4 years 3 months ago
I do not think there is anything wrong with making sure the guy you marry has some professional ambitions and knows how to take care of things financially. Those are attractive qualities. My boyfriend (who I intend to marry) is not getting rich at his job, but it is professionally fulfilling for him, and he makes enough, is smart about his money, and takes care of what he needs to take care of for his finances. He even has money on the side to pursue a side business. And I love him. Best of both worlds.
Will
Will
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women (like smart men) are not one-dimensional.

Sarah
Sarah
4 years 3 months ago

Another vote for “smart men and women marry for shared values.” I love my fiancee, but love alone wouldn’t cut it long term. Shared values is what will do it.

Maddie
Maddie
4 years 3 months ago
I think smart women marry for ambition. However, that ambition has to be applied not just to money, but for lifelong learning, being a good father (if you have kids), staying healthy, keeping the sexual chemistry fresh, etc. A man who is ambitious in life will never be poor, or a jerk, or overweight, or boring. But he should expect the same from his wife. I think the best marriages are ones where you think the other person is better than you. A mutual respect and admiration for one another. That’s the kind of person that I would want to… Read more »
Garrett
Garrett
4 years 3 months ago

Understanding women was explained to me by a wise old man several years ago. I feel it has served me well by taking a step back and keeping the below in mind (of course it is just a guide only).

Women in their 20’s want excitement.
Women in thier 30’s want love and affection.
Women in their 40’s want stability.
Women in their 50’s want cash.
Women in their 60’s+ want companionship.

kim
kim
4 years 3 months ago

man marry for love AND money !

Christan
4 years 3 months ago
Brandi hit it on the head with exactly my first thought…women marry for security. I have been married for nearly 6 years to a man who is fiercely loyal and always trying to anticipate my needs. Knowing you a have a partner that is there through the good and bad is the key. Money played a stressful role in our 2nd year of marriage as our businesses turned south but we strategized, relied on our savings, dusted ourselves off, and repositioned financially and emotionally. The reality is money doesn’t sit by your side when you are having surgery or making… Read more »
John William Johnson, LMT, MFCC
I don’t know if smart is the right word. Smart is defined as quick witted, bright. Intelligent is the correct word for the kind of logical approach you are speaking about. That being said, most people in the US are attracted more by their emotions and visual cues. Most people pick mates based on their background, how they were treated by their parents, much more primal, instinctual motivations. I think what you say makes sense. But sense has as much to do with finding a mate as logic has to do with buying a car. When they interview people about… Read more »
Danielle
Danielle
4 years 3 months ago
Dorie pretty much took the words out of my mouth. I marry for love AND money. That is, I could not be with anyone I didn’t love and wasn’t attracted to physically, intellectually and who didn’t share the same basic values. At the same time, it’s just as easy to marry a rich man as a poor man, as they say. Meaning, I just naturally tend to find attractive and gravitate not towards wealth per se, but men who inherently have traits and characteristics and a certain level of competence and personal achievement and self-esteem that naturally lend to them… Read more »
shannon
shannon
4 years 3 months ago

Smart people marry for convenience (whether it’s the convenience of combining two incomes for a more stable financial outlook, or because their kiddos won’t have to hyphenate their last names, or because their families will finally stop asking when they’re getting married, or for live-in housekeeping…whatever). Modern marriages are still matters of convenience in some form, since you don’t have to get married to net nearly all the benefits/trappings of marriage (tax advantages being one exception that springs to mind).

Faye
Faye
4 years 3 months ago
Its all very idealistic to say that we are in a modern society and that women and men are equals, which is true. However, equal doesn’t mean “the same”. I am a very intelligent, successful and educated woman and can accomplish whatever I want to in this world. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I want to. I, by nature’s intent, have a strong desire to care for my children and my home. My husband, who is fantastic with helping with the house and children, does not, by natures intent have that same built-in strong desire. So what ends up… Read more »
Suzie
Suzie
4 years 3 months ago

Sorry, but this is bullshit. I was raised by a stay-at-home father and my mother was the breadwinner. They have the happiest marriage I have ever seen. By all means have your own ambitions and needs, but don’t assume everyone else has the same ambitions and needs as you.

Christopher Mancini
4 years 3 months ago
I think it is important for a couple to be be aware of money, be able to communicate about money, be able to plan money together. It does not mean that they need to have tons of it, they just need to agree on how they will use what they have. If they can do that, then marrying for love makes sense. Money comes and goes, and if she is a smart woman married to someone she loves that shares the same plan and vision of money, she will make plenty or she will encourage / guide her spouse in… Read more »
br
br
4 years 3 months ago
I’ll be following my grandmother’s, mother’s and recently divorced female friend’s advice: a) Don’t marry the man you love the most, marry the one that loves you the most. b) It takes just as much work to fall in love with a poor man than it does with a rich one, so you might as well pick well. c) Don’t get married with someone that still takes money from their parents. In reality, I’ll add to this the fact that I’m a driven, ambitious and accomplished person (who just happens to be in social work, as this is my passion.… Read more »
KC
KC
4 years 3 months ago
“A man in not a financial plan!” – visible script I wouldn’t date someone who seems like they are on the road to nowhere finance-wise. I wouldn’t get along with someone who wasn’t at least close to my intelligence level. Most people who have an intelligence level similar to mine pick careers that make decent money. I don’t really have much in common with the guy that worked 10 years at the Walmart or the gas station while I was getting my BS degree, traveling the world, starting my career, and then creating side income streams. Meanwhile gas station guy… Read more »
Katherine
Katherine
4 years 3 months ago
It’s so romantic to marry for love, but marriage is more than just a romance. It’s a decision to live and work and play (and possibly raise children) with someone. It has to be a SMART decision, like any other life-changing one we make. So I didn’t marry my husband because he made lots of money (he doesn’t, not yet), but it is certainly something I’m grateful for in our marriage that he 1) has really healthy views about money and finance and 2) makes good finances a priority. Of course I love him, but it isn’t it great to… Read more »
AA
AA
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for Intelligence, Ambition, and Kindness.

Lang
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women marry for a whole variety of reasons. I think you would have to define “smart women”, are we talking about 25 – 30 year old professional working women, who are able to support them selves, have a bachelor’s degree at least, some who might even have master degrees. I think this question is too broad, but general questions get general answers, so here goes: I think smart women, don’t just marry for money, but it is a factor that goes into the equation, whether or not some women put more weight on it is a different factor. An… Read more »
Katherine Chalmers
Katherine Chalmers
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women can earn their OWN money. They marry for character, potential, and love. A man with excellent character, empathy, intelligence, a strong work ethic who truly loves his wife is a far better long term choice than some ordinary guy with some bucks and a cute butt. A man of character and potential is much more likely to be financially successful over the course of a lifetime and more likely to take his familial responsibilities seriously. A shallow rich guy who would dump his wife and kids at 40 for newer models is no prize. Also, marrying the right… Read more »
A S
A S
4 years 3 months ago

what if she loves money?

AR
AR
4 years 3 months ago

Someone please define “love”.

Sarah
Sarah
4 years 3 months ago

I think others above have done a great job at answering Ramit’s question. I just feel compelled to acknowledge the hilarious comment to Ginger’s article made by Patrick B. He was probably being sarcastic, but I had to laugh at his relationship/investment advice: drop it when performance is low. Good luck getting ahead with that strategy…

Jacki
Jacki
4 years 3 months ago
People marry for the future! Do I think this partner will love me and help support me through my golden years unconditionally? That’s a good investment to make. I also want to key into the money marrying aspect a little bit more. I am (more or less) capable of controlling the income I obtain, but am not as much so able to control an SO’s income, so shouldn’t I focus more on my own ability to bolster my earnings than worry about someone else’s money that I can’t control, nor their desire to control it? I’m not say marry a… Read more »
Stefan
Stefan
4 years 3 months ago

IMO the girl should have an equal or slightly lower financial level than mine. Too big of a difference and I would feel like her sponsor, or I would feel like having a hard time “keeping up”, either way costing me a lot of money and a lot of frustration. So yeah the financial level is an important factor.

Pat
Pat
4 years 3 months ago

I looked at intelligence, sense of humor, kindness, respectfulness, money habits, personal grooming (Yes! Too many schlumpy guys out there!), integrity, how they treated their parents and family and, of course, love. In essence, I wanted someone that would make a great partner so that we would build a beautiful life together. I also wanted someone who was committed and not merely interested in commitment.

Alichino
Alichino
4 years 3 months ago
I will be honest and say that I do consider finances when looking at potential partners. While I do have my own career, I want someone to pool resources with; and while having money doesn’t necessarily equal being happy, I’d rather be rich and miserable than poor and miserable. In my opinion, love alone does not sustain a relationship. If it does, I’d imagine that such couples are those who have enough money that it truly doesn’t matter (e.g. trust fund babies.) I think that wanting to marrying for money is no different than wanting to marry someone who’s tall… Read more »
Shannon
Shannon
4 years 3 months ago
Smart people marry for love and compatability with your big issues, including money. My fiancee makes good money, which is great but not what attracted me to him, that would be his smile and character. Both of us paid attention to how the other handled money and savings throughout our relationship, because that’s a big deal to future harmony. We have similar spending styles, which is to be conservative most of the time and splash out on things that we care about ever now and then. In my past dating life, most of the guys I dated made around the… Read more »
Natalie
4 years 3 months ago
I had five MUSTS for a partner (I was never interested in finding a husband) 1. We had to love and respect each other. 2. He had to think I was funny and vice versa. Humor is very important to me. 3. He had to be good with money but neccessarily making a ton. Just not spending like crazy and not saving. 4. He had to be good in bed. 5. Have to love what he does, whatever he does. That was my criteria. Call me a superficial jerk, but that’s how I met my husband. And I NEVER thought… Read more »
Jessica H
Jessica H
4 years 3 months ago

Def agree with Natalie for the most part…I’d never marry someone just because I loved them haha I may not mind if they don’t make that much (esp. if they love their job) but if they aren’t responsible with their money, they certainly won’t be responsible with mine if we decide to share and share alike…and that’s a deal-breaker right there.

Katie
Katie
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women are realistic when picking a partner. The previous comment on thresholds was very good, I would only add that money often acts as a good proxy for personal characteristics, which can affect love. For instance, high salary usually equals dedicated, ambitious, and disciplined. That person (usually) must have some of those qualities if they became so successful. It’s why I (and most of my circle) are often attracted to high performing professionals (e.g., lawyers, doctors, etc.), but not lottery winners. While it may seem like the money is what’s attracting you, it’s actually the qualities that allowed the… Read more »
Peter
Peter
4 years 3 months ago

The rational consumer, uhh, I mean men and women marry to maximize their utility. There is as much discussion trying to define “rational” or “smart” as there is to define utility.

asgreen
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for compatibility. Yes love comes first and must be there, but so should compatibility on family, careers and yes money.

CDR
CDR
4 years 3 months ago
“I married her because of her GEP (Good Earning Potential) I have been married for 24 years now. I dated my wife through college and married her after we both finished college and had stable jobs. Interestingly, I made no bones about the fact I always wanted to marry someone with “GEP” and not only did my wife fit that model, we were also compatible religion wise and values wise. Now, my wife never really revealed her true feelings about money, until I left private industry to become a “high school teacher”‘. Prior to teaching, I was a VP in… Read more »
Lisa
Lisa
4 years 3 months ago

What happens after the marriage is more important than why you got married. Love isn’t an impulse, it’s a commitment. Usually when people say they want to marry for love, they aren’t really talking about love. They’re talking about emotion. But your spouse is eventually going to drive you crazy and real love is what makes you stick around despite that.

Lisa
Lisa
4 years 3 months ago

Theoretically, someone could marry for money but stay married for love.

Jim E.
Jim E.
4 years 3 months ago
I’m pretty sure you’ve left this as a fairly loaded wide open argument on purpose and I really can’t speak to what a female actually considers when getting into marriage. I would say though it might be better to discover what the underlying script here is to find out what they define both marriage and love as. Conceptually marriage in my mind has been a 3 part component. 1) A public proclamation to your peers that you and your spouse intend to live your lives as a family unit for the duration 2) A contract with the government that you… Read more »
Meg
Meg
4 years 3 months ago
I’m the aforementioned WASP. Of course there are social opportunities to advance my husband’s career. It’s why every so often I haul out the good dress and lipstick, and go to my husband’s work social events and reunions and performances and smile and make nice chit-chat. I hate social events, but it’s important. It’s also why we have houseguests and meet up with people on a regular basis. It’s also important that I’m taking care of everything else, so my husband can drop everything to meet with someone who can potentially help him. My husband works. It’s basically all he… Read more »
Jim E.
Jim E.
4 years 3 months ago

I’m glad you see your responsibility in your role but I think your answer drifts slightly too much to pigeonholing the whole deal. Right now you have a situation that works and plays to both of your strengths. There will be times as absurd as it sounds where it will be better for the both of you if you attend one of those social affairs and he stays home and takes care of the house for the evening. So long as both of you are pulling in the same direction I think you’ve got the right idea.

Jessica Mashael
Jessica Mashael
4 years 3 months ago
RULE: Successful marriages require compatibility for success and happiness. 2nd, they require adaptability and commitment to taking actions as a team. How does money fit into that rule? The partners financial situations and abilities need to be complimentary. If a man is very frugal and has his own home and car paid off, he would need to choose someone who does not come with a financial situation that could harm that. A woman who has no past due debt and owns a house that she rents out for income, cannot marry a man who will harm that. How important is… Read more »
Angie
Angie
4 years 3 months ago
I agree with many of the comments above. I am planning to get married to my current boyfriend and I did consider money as he did as well, along with other values. While not necessarily a first date conversation, money should be talked about early on in a relationship. In turn, I have always been very candid about my $180k law school debt as it is a serious factor in whether someone wants to take on that debt when they marry me. Money is not the only value, but is a very important one. It requires both people to take… Read more »
Lynn
Lynn
4 years 3 months ago
Money is definitely a factor when looking at a partner and should be for both genders. I married shortly after college, so neither of us was raking in the dough, but we both had control over our money and had similar money views. As for debt – it’s not necessarily the size, but what you do with it 😉 (and how it came to be). If the person with the debt is diligently paying it down, not racking up more debt and is being fiscally responsible then it seems ok (but be open about it). If the debt is student… Read more »
tanja
tanja
4 years 3 months ago

Marry for love. Before our mariage my husband made more money, now i make more and i could not care less. If you need more, you can always find a solution. (such ad buying ramit his info 😉

I have to add that i always fell for intelligent guys… And hiding a debt for years is a huge lie, i can not immagine being with someone who keeps such a secret from me.

K00kyKelly
4 years 3 months ago

…or worse: what if they don’t know they have a ton of debt!

leukothea
leukothea
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women marry where they see multiple overlapping strengths and potentials for the future. I married someone with compatible goals — for instance, whether or not he wanted children, what type of life we both wanted to have — and someone supportive, whom I could tell anything. Over the years, life has thrown us off a few cliff edges into pools of piranhas (that sounds better than “has thrown us a few curve balls, right?), but because we can talk to each other honestly, we’ve been able to solve problems and strengthen the partnership. Marriage is about so much more… Read more »
Kristin Bennett
4 years 3 months ago

Long term compatibility, friendship and solid collaborative problem solving skills. He was (is) able to keep up with my daughter before and now all our kids too…total bonus! We’ve gone through financial ups and downs and our love and shared entrepreneurial optimism makes it fun either way! 🙂

Kristin
4 years 3 months ago

Oh and he’s brilliant too…that helps, was fun to have it confirmed when we both got accepted into Mensa 😉 he keeps me entertained..vice versa too I’m sure!

Tiffany
Tiffany
4 years 3 months ago
I have always earned all the money I need so money wasn’t a huge factor in determining who I married. I sort of feel like these questions are assuming that “traditional” roles are being played in a marriage. Even now, I still earn enough to support me, my husband and our 3 kids on my income alone. He takes care of the kids and doesn’t work outside the home. This is very important to me. When we were dating, what made my heart melt was how good he was with kids. So, I guess you could say I married the… Read more »
R S
R S
4 years 3 months ago
Why can’t it be both? I married b/c I could provide better protection for my spouse in the worst-case-scenario-that-hopefully-never-occurs – things like death, job layoff, etc. I wanted these things because I love him. Sure, I could add him as a beneficiary etc. But for health decisions – he’s best equipped with up-to-date knowledge on what I would want. Without a spouse, they go to next kin, being my immediate family.. as well as they know me, they aren’t privy to pillow talk. This is not to say, the other worst-case-scenario (divorce) can’t be provisioned for. Since I love him,… Read more »
Nate
Nate
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for love, smart women marry for money? Umm…loaded questions much?

First, using the term smart, implies that a women must be “dumb” if they’re not taking one of those options? Not sure I get it.

Second, to imply that marriage is some sort of zero sum game is ridiculous. There are so many factors that go into just choosing a partner…marriage adds another level of complexity on top of that. Money and love are just two pieces of the picture. What’s the value in breaking these two out?

JB
JB
4 years 3 months ago

I think the one word answer to this question would be ‘values’…and the more compatible or aligned the better. This would encompass intelligence, ethics, money management, career success, pursuit of knowledge and self-improvement, drive and motivation, health & fitness, honesty, love, compassion, sharing, communication and family.

Elizabeth
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for shared values and goals (and love!). If you both see money very differently, it would be very difficult to sustain that relationship in the long run because ultimately someone is going to grow resentful.

I want to build a life with someone and I cannot imagine not being on the same page about something as big as money.

CM
4 years 3 months ago
The “smart women marry for money” blog post has a provocative title which worked great to boost readership. But the content of the post itself is a lot more reasonable — if you are smart, then you strive for financial stability, and you should marry someone with a similar financial approach and goals. It’s not actually telling people to marry someone rich. If I found out someone I was dating had racked up a lot of debt for no good reason and with no plan to pay it off, I would seriously question their judgment. That person does not seem… Read more »
Anonymous for this
Anonymous for this
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women realize marriage is a legal transaction. Just as in a business partnership, they should look for a partner who shares their values, their vision, their integrity, and will be loyal and trustworthy to the partnership. They should marry a partner to whom they are willing to hold with the promises made in that legal transaction: to stay married in sickness and health, through good times and bad, until death do them part. Love is nice, but will wax and wane over the long haul. Ask any long-married couple if they’ve ever hit a “rough”spot. If they say “no,”… Read more »
Jess H.
Jess H.
4 years 3 months ago

A couple of data points from a lady who thinks very similarly:

After a cancer or MS diagnosis, men are six times as likely to dump their wives as vice versa.

I don’t know of any studies on women and IQ specifically, but both men and women get more likely to cheat as they make more money, especially as the difference between their income and their spouse’s income grows.

Jill
4 years 3 months ago
Compatible values create success. A very ambitious couple will have two partners who are high earners, fit, outwardly oriented, who both value material growth and good looks over time. When they choose to have children, the woman will stay home or hire a nanny based on her personal goals. Staying good looking will be important to her to keep her “value” in the relationship. Her husbands earnings will need to continue to increase in order for them to both be happy. A less ambitious couple who is perhaps more artistic or more spiritual will have less emphasis on his income,… Read more »
Janine
Janine
4 years 3 months ago
Funny you should pose the question of ‘finding out… $30,000 of debt’. I had a failed business, some of the debt which I was personally liable for on a credit card and a loan I had to personally guarantee… not my cheapest lesson in business, but on the other hand it still cost me less than an MBA would have. I began a new relationship and the fact that I was driven and entrepreneurial was one of the big reasons he was attracted to me, upon moving in together and discussing finances, I revealed that I had this debt and… Read more »
Bronwyn
Bronwyn
4 years 3 months ago

I married at 24 to a man I met at 18, so I can’t relate. We have been everything from poor to rich together, and now we are somewhere in between. If I were to marry again, now- I don’t think money would be a huge issue unless I felt that we didn’t agree on money issues. My husband and I rarely disagree on how to spend our money. And we don’t micro-manage each other’s discretionary spending.

Amy
Amy
4 years 3 months ago

Easy – smart women don’t get married – parochial tradition that existed so unworking women could survive and breed and men could have a manager of household.

Dane
Dane
4 years 3 months ago

I foresee lots of cats in your future.

EF
EF
4 years 3 months ago

Well, it’s true. Ouch.

Tara
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for honesty and shared values.
The debt will matter if they’ve been hiding it for 4 years…or if that’s far outside your own comfort level and goes against your values.
A low income matters if it clashes with your values – is it a low income because they work with the mentally disabled (like my husband!) or because they’re not ambitious or because they didn’t get a college degree? And how much does that matter to YOU?

Jess H.
Jess H.
4 years 3 months ago
Several people above have said “shared values” and “priorities” and all that good stuff. I definitely agree. I think smart women should marry consciously! Here are some of the things it’s probably a good idea to be conscious of. Married men have more free time than their wives do – five hours a week, on average. Men don’t do more housework or childcare if they earn less money; even unemployed men only increase their household contributions by a few minutes a day. When women marry, their levels of stress shoot up, as do rates of anxiety and depression, while their… Read more »
Barbara Saunders
Barbara Saunders
4 years 3 months ago
Smart people marry for love plus compatible values. Money and otherwise. If you want to get rich, there will be conflict if your spouse does not. However, fortunes change. If you marry only for the snapshot, the good job they happen to have today, what happens when they decide they want to go live in an ashram because the value never was wealth but was something else? (Or vice versa, of course.) If two people are diligently pursuing the same values, they will be more likely to achieve them AND will have some bond even if things don’t work out… Read more »
Maria
Maria
4 years 3 months ago

I read the smart women bit and immediately thought of what my mother would say.

Only a fool marries for money
Only a bigger fool marries for love.

Donat
4 years 3 months ago

smart women marry for the better and the worse
smart men too.

A Viescas
A Viescas
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for their own reasons, not someone else’s. If that reason is love, it’s love. If it’s money, it’s money.

More often, it’s some “secret formula” of many factors that works for only them. Love is often a code-word for the factors that influence a relationship.

The worst mistake someone can make — especially an otherwise intelligent women — is marrying for someone else’s formula.

Janet
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry only if they want to. Women can marry or not marry. For love or money or social goals if they want. That’s what I love about this age.

L
L
4 years 3 months ago
Again, I dislike the generalizations. “Smart women” do what? Smart women do whatever they want, and if they’re smart, I’d imagine they think about it first (though being smart doesn’t necessarily mean coming to good conclusions). Also, aren’t you kind of forgetting about lesbians and bisexuals here? I did not read the article. I’d imagine that the “ancillary factors” that are relevant are things like responsibility. You can be rich or poor and responsible (contrary to what some seem to believe), but if you have a decent job and waste all your money, you may be a poor choice for… Read more »
Jess H.
Jess H.
4 years 3 months ago
Oh! I wanted to say something about the debt example. My husband had over $40k of educational debt. (Technically not when we met, as we were both still in school, but by the time we started talking life commitment the debt was there.) Obviously we got married anyhow, but we did quite a lot of thinking and talking about how we’d handle the debt together. It helped us see that we have the same financial values, and by collaborating we managed to pay it off in just five years. I might have felt differently if it were consumption debt, as… Read more »
YOHAMI
4 years 3 months ago

“Smart women….” false premise!

😉

Women marry because it brings comfort security etc. And short term happiness. Then divorce because of the same reasons.

Carrie
Carrie
4 years 3 months ago
Marry for love. Having a solid relationship will help the marriage survive hard times. Money can be low now but that doesnt mean it will be for the entire marriage it can be made (look at Ramit’s success stories). If a women marries for money, there is no guarantee that the money will always be there. It can be lost: bad investments, bank closures, job loss, etc. If the money is gone does the marriage end? I have a family member who isn’t the greatest with money. He recently married a women who is financially better off and can manage… Read more »
Sarah
Sarah
4 years 3 months ago
The first time I married, it was for “love” (and because I thought I couldn’t find anyone better–young women in their early 20s tend to have bad judgment based on their own lack of experience and the self-esteem which comes from experience). That didn’t work out so well, because I hadn’t evaluated how well the relationship with him really worked. Turns out I didn’t like him very well, and he didn’t like me very well either. Which is not a great foundation for a working partnership. The second time I married it was also for “love.” I’d like to say… Read more »
Marilyn
Marilyn
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for synergy.

Sure I make sacrifices in my marriage. But we are each others cheerleaders, money accountability agents, adventure seekers, sounding board, editors, purpose reminders, health advocates, examples of compassion, and general awesome bombs. I’ve become a better person married.

Debbie Weil
4 years 3 months ago
Ramit, I’m a big fan but you’re missing a couple of steps here. What defines a smart woman? Emotionally smart? Pure intellect? Not too many hangups from childhood? Define her values. Does she want kids? Does she want to be “taken care of”? Does she think of herself as an equal partner? Is she passionate about her career / work? Is she driven? Is she warm? Is she loving? Can she be as selfless as one needs to be to nurture and raise babies? Is she all of the above?? If so, she’ll know what to marry for and it… Read more »
Emily
Emily
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for love. But not the kind of love you’re thinking of.

“Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy, it has no pride. Love does not demand it’s own way. It does not seek it’s own, it’s not easily provoked. It keeps no record of wrongs, speaks no evil but rejoices in the truth. It bears and believes in all things, hopes and endures in all things.” — God

There’s no amount of money that is more important than that kind of love. (Note: men should marry for this kind of love, too) 🙂

Monica
Monica
4 years 3 months ago

God said that?

Anonymous for this
Anonymous for this
4 years 3 months ago

Actually, it was probably written by Paul and “Sosthenes our brother” in Chapter 13 of First Corinthians of the Christian Bible. I say probably, because there is no proof of this. It certainly wasn’t written by anyone named “God.”

Shermaine
Shermaine
4 years 3 months ago
The guy doesn’t have to be already rich, but it is very important he shows that he would strive to be how does he plan to get there. A guy who wants to provide will first understand how to provide. That would make me respect him more and love him more, hence be willing to get involved in a long term relationship like marriage. So I guess here, striving to make more money and the will to make both our life better will be the one of the major reason why I should marry him. Now if you are a… Read more »
obi-wan kenobi
obi-wan kenobi
4 years 3 months ago

Men give money to get sex. Women give sex to get money. This is the fundamental rock base we all stand on. Now, from here, you figure out why SMART women marry – and why SMART men marry.
During your first year of marriage, every time the two of you have sex, you put one dry bean in a jar.
During every year of marriage thereafter, every time the two of you have sex, you take out one dry bean from that same jar.
At the end of your lives, there will still be beans in that jar.

Tiffany
Tiffany
4 years 3 months ago

Clueless ^^

Monica
Monica
4 years 3 months ago

One dry old bean deserves another.

Anonymous for this
Anonymous for this
4 years 3 months ago

So sad to hear your life has been this way. And to think you’re suggesting frequency is a measure of quality…makes me sadder for your mate.

Gaby
Gaby
4 years 3 months ago

What did I just read…

Beth
Beth
4 years 3 months ago

OK, I’ll admit this is going to probably sound trite, but the attributes that make my husband successful (i.e. high money potential) are big parts what attracted me to him. He’s smart, ambitious, good with people, and funny. I think it’s rediculous that people think that marriage is only about one thing: money or love. Why can’t you have both? Do men only marry for looks? (Please don’t answer this or I’ll have to quit what I’m doing and punch someone in the face.)

Debi @MysticPassage
4 years 3 months ago
Not sure how many women actually use intelligence to determine who their spouse or partner will be … it’s usually based on emotions. Having been there, done that (and truly LOVED the person I married) only to find a values clash with regard to how money was spent and leisure activities (his was drinking in the back yard, mine was doing “something”). A woman who is “thinking” will determine a partner based not only on emotional attraction but also on compatibility … does the other person have similar values (they don’t have to be the same), want similar things from… Read more »
Jen
Jen
4 years 3 months ago
I’d like to think that love is more of a priority for me than money, however I’ve definitely had to adjust my worldview and expectations since I began dating almost ten years ago. Money didn’t matter in the beginning; in high school and college, when my boyfriends and I were pretty equally broke. Since I began working, I’ve noticed how much *I* earn affects my relationships, and it tends to be largely negative. I’m 26 now, and since I’ve been 21, I’ve always made more money than the last few boyfriends. One boyfriend started to rely on me to pay… Read more »
N
N
4 years 3 months ago

Smart Women Marry with their eyes wide open.
For me, I will marry a man with excellent stable finances and similar values:
a) Very good stable finances that will provide the best schools & opportunities for the kids & our family;
b) healthy lifestyle and loves horses;
c) is a gentleman.
Smart women have their own money and enjoy a sense of humor.

Lucy Ra
4 years 3 months ago
“A man being rich is like a girl being pretty, you don’t marry her for it but it sure doesn’t hurt,” said Marilyn Monroe and I agree with her. I must confess that a few years ago, per a friend’s suggestion, I made a list of qualities for a potential husband. This list has 3 sections titled “must have”, “nice to have”, and “no way”. We won’t get into it but I will highlight the areas of the topic discussed in this post. In my list “money” is in the “nice to have” category, but “ambition” is in the “must… Read more »
Lucy Ra
4 years 3 months ago

*by dept I meant debt

N
N
4 years 3 months ago
QUESTION: How important is money when you’re evaluating a potential partner? Very. How important should money be? Depends on person. And is it different for men and women? For me, the man should be bringing in more – it avoids conflict. Examples (for both genders): If you find out that your girlfriend/boyfriend has $30,000 of debt, how would you react? I’d head for the hills in a New York minute. What if you’ve been dating for 4 years? If it was a valid expense (student loan for potential future earnings eg: a post-grad degree to improve salary/potential) I’d stay, if… Read more »
Chris
Chris
4 years 3 months ago
“Smart” people participate in maritime admiralty tradition (marriage) for what purpose? However, to find a lifelong partner aside from the legal bondage issue it is clearly intelligence that makes a good couple. True intelligence is being skilled in all aspects of life: finances, intellect, sex, ego control, rapport, emotional balance…etc. Also, you could just as easily ask what do men look for in a women? Or more to the point what do people look for in lifelong partners? Until then women is still the n!gger of the world. Lennon had it right in his jam women is the n!@#$ of… Read more »
Marisa Ike
Marisa Ike
4 years 3 months ago
How you handle money is a microcosm of how you are in the rest of your life. The man who pays his bills on time, spends responsibly and plans for his future finances is probably going to be the guy who calls when he says he is going to, will prioritize family obligations and has a general plan for how he wants his life to look in five, ten and thirty years – both career-wise and family-wise. Life is not a romantic comedy where the dopey male partner who forgets birthdays or does irresponsible things with the kids, etc. is… Read more »
Moo
Moo
4 years 3 months ago
I consider money something moderately important. Money measures how much you want something in life, and how driven you are to get it. I think money is of equal importance to both genders, as ideally a couple should be able to support itself on the income of either partner independently of the other. Men should marry for… truth be known, I haven’t figured out a compelling reason for a man to marry. I have serious issues with relationships, so I’m not a qualified judge. The idea of marrying a woman fills me with dread, as I see marriage as a… Read more »
Goofoi
Goofoi
4 years 3 months ago
It’s a false dichotomy. Let me put my Dawkins hat on. Both men and women are hardwired to ensure the success of their genes via offspring. Women look for resources in a mate; men look for beauty in a mate. Money is the outward manifestation of a number of male characteristics that signal good survival and replication value to women: intelligence, determination, ambition, dominance, status. Women rely on it as a quick proxy for these attributes. (The accuracy of our perceptions is another topic altogether.) The proxy changes over time but it signals the same things. When we see money… Read more »
Syndee
4 years 3 months ago
Money and one’s relationship to it falls under the category of values. Smart people marry people who have similar values. Bottom line. Your values dictate your goals and how you reach them. If you’re not both headed in the same direction (which doesn’t mean you play the same part) the end is near. Smart people (experienced people) know that love is wonderful and absolutely necessary if you want your marriage to be more than a business contract and it is not enough. A successful marriage is a team that functions in many arenas of life – sexual, domestic, business, wider… Read more »
Rob
Rob
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women (and men) marry for VALUES.

Sara DeFrancesco
4 years 3 months ago

Love this comment! Thanks, Rob!

Elsa
Elsa
4 years 3 months ago
I’ll say it depend on the personality, and more importantly the past of the smart women ! I know someone who really struggled in her past relationship and usually end up with men that could handle the fact that she was making more money than them. So, know she decided to find someone who earn at least the same salary, but she’d appreciate if it could be more than her. You could say that she didn’t had luck but truth is a majority of men still have a problem with that. I’m not saying that every man can’t handle earn… Read more »
Sara DeFrancesco
4 years 3 months ago
I think smart women marry for love and create their own financial success. That said, if a potential longterm partner was very irresponsible with their finances, it would make me wonder what else they were being irresponsible about and whether or not this behavior would manifest when it came to the relationship, family, or large joint purchases. I am a medical student with a large amount of student loan debt. My partner currently makes about 1/5 of the salary I expect to be making in my future private practice. I am thankful that although I am currently in debt, I… Read more »
Rachel
Rachel
4 years 3 months ago
I did not take the time to read all of the comments, but I’ll still give my opinion. Now that I’ve been married for a few years I have been thinking that my parents did not teach me (at all) what to look for in a husband. I thought it should be about love (and who/what I could put up with), but you really have to take all of the other factors into consideration too – money, family, goals, etc. When I married my husband I thought we wanted the same things out of life and were at the same… Read more »
Evianne
Evianne
4 years 3 months ago
What smart women marry for is clearly up for debate (other than the general consensus of ‘compatibility’ and ‘shared values’ – fair enough), but regardless of their reasons, smart women should sign a pre-nup. Yes, you want to be together forever. Hopefully you wouldn’t get married if that weren’t the case (though we all know it happens…) And if you are, great! The pre-nup becomes essentially meaningless. But what if you aren’t? What if life throws you a curveball down the road? Why are many people able to be rational when it comes to money and investing, but not their… Read more »
James
James
4 years 3 months ago

All of this really makes me think of something I read a while back called “The Ladder Theory” (http://www.laddertheory.com/). The theory does give an interesting theory of how men and woman choose their mates–with a comical (maybe even derogative) twist.

Gordon Worley
4 years 3 months ago
I agree with the importance of ladder theory. Although you might not agree with how some of the details of the model are explained, I think it does a pretty good job of providing a model of how men and women think in relationships and choose partners. The short version is, men have one ladder on which they place women they meet. Their position on the ladder is a ranking of how much they want to have a relationship with them. It doesn’t have to be a proper ordering, just a rough ranking where you can clearly say “these women… Read more »
Kris
Kris
4 years 3 months ago
I can’t say what smart “women” marry for. I can only speak for one woman – myself- because the answers are as varied as there are stars. I married because of compatibility. For me “values” are part of that compatibility as are, many of the other comments that others have shared. The things is, once a person has spent time with their “significant other”, if they feel they share a vision of what their future together could look like, they may very well take that next step of marriage. That vision changes each and every day and each and every… Read more »
Susanne F
4 years 3 months ago

In this day and time there is no need for marriage it is an institution that is no longer needed. Men do not need to marry to get sex and women do not need a man to make money.

So may answer is: smart women to not marry [and that of course should not hold them back from having a committed relationship they want].

Jon
4 years 3 months ago

Ramit,

Not necessarily from a statutory standpoint. Common Law marriages are still quite common.

Monica
Monica
4 years 3 months ago
Love is a beautiful thing, but not a good reason to marry. Marriage is a legal contract. A merger if you will. Each party brings assets and liabilities. You essentially incorporate. If you don’t mind being responsible for your spouses back taxes, defaulted student loans and credit card debt, best wishes. This is before there are children involved. People, especially women, fantasize about the wedding, the dress, the flowers, the reception, with very little thought about the reality of blending two different lives together. Do your homework. If the numbers don’t add up, they don’t add up. You can still… Read more »
Lauren
Lauren
4 years 3 months ago

“Money” in this instance a symbol for responsibility, ambition, independence and more. What woman doesn’t want that? Or man for that matter! If you don’t pay your bills or see the need for savings and retirement accounts yo’ure a nearsighted fool or an immature child. I don’t want to marry either.

Maria
Maria
4 years 3 months ago
I actually had an arranged marriage of sorts, I was looking/wanted to get married and a really close friend’s husband had a close friend who was also looking and they thought we would be a perfect fit. We sat down and got to know each other and we were VERY, very compatible. So much so that we decided that we would marry not an engagement but rather an understanding that marriage was not off the table while we got to know more about each other. Things progressed rapidly and we were so in-tune with each other that we got married… Read more »
Dane
Dane
4 years 3 months ago

“I clearly didn’t know what kind of man I wanted as I kept picking up the wrong ones.”

Hah… asking women what they want is a good way to get an honest answer, but not a truthful one.

Agota
Agota
4 years 3 months ago
I think there are some great points in this comment. I think that so many people in their 20s get hurt in relationships because: a) They don’t know what they want. b) They don’t look for a partner who would be compatible with that. Instead, most people this age take what I call the “8th Grade Approach”: “I really like you. Let’s be boyfriend and girlfriend”. The problem is that adult life is much more complicated than 8th grade. Good point that it’s better to find out key incompatibilities before early in a relationship than few years together. It’s also… Read more »
mya
mya
4 years 3 months ago

Ramit, this recent gendered bullshit you are spewing is really pissing me off. Where’s the article on what men should marry for? Why are women supposed to give a shit? Why should anyone get married? More importantly no one wants your weird life advice, stick to finances where you make sense and don’t offend. Sheesh.

mya
mya
4 years 3 months ago
I thought about it some more after I cooled down. Ultimately, yes, it is true that money and life intersect, particularly in the arena of marriage, and you can/should talk about it via your platform. For example, is marriage itself as a way of structuring a relationship a a wise financial decision in the long run? That’s something I would actually like to know. But “smart” “women”? Judgmental AND stereotypical. Surely you’re just as as capable of writing about this issue from a non-incendiary and human perspective as you are of easy click-whoring. “Do Smart Bloggers Troll For Clicks?” Yes,… Read more »
William L
William L
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women marry men and smart men marry smart women Smartness in marriage is determination paired with character and faith. You want someone who believes in you (faith), applies the same rules to themselves and you and in doing so gives you opportunity (character), and will not back down in their support of you (determination). Love is the application of this by choice rather than obligation. It is not just the contract of marriage, but the unwillingness to default on the contract which makes love an important factor here. A smart person knows that they need someone to trust with… Read more »
William L
William L
4 years 3 months ago

That should be smart women marry smart men and smart men marry smart women.

Lauren
Lauren
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women make enough money that they can afford to marry whoever the hell they want.

Tinad
Tinad
4 years 3 months ago
This is an interesting article. Women AND men should consider money issues when deciding whether or not to marry or, for that matter, enter into any relationship. Love is a physical thing, but, as Steven Covey says, you can choose whether or not to be loving toward someone. I have been married four times (yes, four, but I’ve been single for 15 years now), so I am speaking from experience. In all cases, I didn’t consider money to be a factor, and basically ignored it. That choice ultimately led to the marriages breaking up. I would definitely have second thoughts… Read more »
Jessie Lee
4 years 3 months ago

I truly can’t tweet either.

Both matter to me, along with other things of importance as well. Though, admittedly, it’s not the money that matters as much as it is the ambition and drive to succeed.

Jessica Rudder
4 years 3 months ago
I married someone that was going to challenge me in the areas that I needed to be challenged in (and whom I could challenge in other areas). As a result, we don’t always have the most comfortable marriage where we’re always looking into each others eyes and talking about how much we love our googly bear (or whatever). But, we are constantly forcing each other to grow and improve. So, my answer to that questions is that smart women (and men) marry someone that is likely to make them a better person. Though, it should be noted that this is… Read more »
Jana
Jana
4 years 3 months ago
I wouldn’t call either of them “smart”, sorry. If a woman marries for “love” only, without assessing the partner’s survival qualities, it’s plain stupid. Love is no legitimate excuse for lack of responsibility and indicates a self-esteem issue. And the woman who marries for money? Using exclusively her brain to take this decision, she probably sees herself much smarter than the former one… but how bright is it in fact? Reducing herself to a merchandise, she sacrifices her sexual and emotional well-being for some sort of security or luxury… which can both be achieved in smarter ways, without bringing such… Read more »
Bobby
Bobby
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for respect. They give their partner respect and they get respect from their partner.

Cat
Cat
4 years 3 months ago

Quote from the article – The reality is that personal finance issues are the leading cause of divorce and in order to live happily ever after, you must be on the same page as far as your finances are concerned.

I got into personal finance after my parents got divorced after 35 years OVER MONEY. Dealing with that tension growing up and seeing the difference in their attitudes after the split was incredibly telling to me. Totally agree values over money should agree or have your own checking account (or both).

Abby
Abby
4 years 3 months ago
I don’t think it’s specifically one or the other – there are so many factors to consider, mind you, love and money are just two of them! I am not married, but as a well educated professional young woman I am not just looking for someone with money – a gentleman can have all the money in the world, and not be able to interact with me on an intellectual level. I am looking for someone who is able to engage in discussions on things that matter, someone who would challenge me to strive for excellence continually. In my mind… Read more »
vicky
vicky
4 years 3 months ago

What’s this ‘marry’ thing? Haven’t we progressed as a species far enough along to get rid of ‘buying and selling’ of people idea? Please.

Wilma
Wilma
4 years 3 months ago

My entire life my dad has said that one should only marry a partner if you share similar views on three things: money, religion/morals and love.

If those three things are solid, everything else will fall into place even if it’s sometimes difficult. If even one of those is missing, the marriage will fail.

hearing similar advice from elsewhere is very validating for me.

Charlie B
Charlie B
4 years 3 months ago

Simple. Smart women marry smart men. Smart men marry smart women. Usually.

Courtney
4 years 3 months ago
While I don’t personally hold marriage in high regard, that’s not really the point of the discussion here. Whether or not you get married, the vast majority of people will, at some point in their lives, have a relationship that forces (or allows) them to work with another person towards common goals – of a financial, experiential, or other such nature. To do this you need to be a team. If your “teammate” is pulling in the opposite direction then why are they there? You would be way more efficient and successful without the loser and way happier with someone… Read more »
MaryNYC
MaryNYC
4 years 3 months ago

exactly. what is so hard to understand about this and why does it offend?

Steve
Steve
4 years 3 months ago
Once again you’ve trapped me into responding to an “US Weekly” style post that I am now dumber for having read. A smart woman marries a capable man as early as possible while she is in her prime. A smart man never gets married. (Though a dumb man should marry the best woman he can get ahold of). Even kids are not a reason to get married anymore. Plenty of couples are choosing to have kids out of wedlock with no intentions of getting married. It’s actually become the norm among the younger generation in Sweden to just “cohabit” and… Read more »
RJ
RJ
4 years 3 months ago
I’ve been married for 17 years. I’m 45. I married because I fell in love. I fell in love with someone who is my equal, my partner, my teammate. Side by side, shoulder to shoulder, we carry all the loads, good, bad and otherwise. We are different enough “to pull each other out of the ditch” but similar enough to pursue the same priorities and laugh at the same things. We’ve taken turns supporting each other financially, often both working. We both have college degrees. We do the best we can to live the most honorable, loving life we can.… Read more »
Debbie Weil
4 years 3 months ago
Ramit, What lovely people you have commenting here. They’ve got the answer (I see it running through many of the responses). The one essential thing a woman should look for is shared values. And a man, too. Shared values over the long haul (yes, many decades in my case) is what makes a marriage work. Shared values about what is important (books, reading, education) as well as what is sacrosanct. That would include an absolute commitment to the marriage itself. It’s not a perfect equation, BTW. There were years when my husband was in medical training or launching his medical… Read more »
Thomas Edwards
4 years 3 months ago
I chose to propose to my fiancée because she makes my life better. A simple decision based on a complicated perspective. We talk about finances all the time. She’s not necessarily good with money. In fact, when she gets a tab, I have to calculate the tip because she’s just awful with numbers. It’s pretty funny. In the long run, I’m going to be the guy who will have the good credit and manage the finances. She knows this and I’m ok with that. I’ve even stopped reminding her when bills are due because she’ll never remember. She doesn’t even… Read more »
ccq
ccq
4 years 3 months ago
i picked out my husband because of the standard reasons (smart, funny, handsome, shared values, etc), but more more specific things i looked for: -good taste in music & films. i guess this is me outing myself as a hipster. but i’m not going to listen to awful music for the rest of my life. currently my husband mines the internet for all kinds of wonderful musical oddities and rarities to bring home for us to listen to. love this. he loves that i love it. it is a giant love fest with an amazing soundtrack. (also i read an… Read more »
Jay
Jay
4 years 3 months ago
Can’t really talk for anyone else but me, and i can say I married for… well of course love played a part. My husband is a wonderful person, warm and caring, very supportive, with a great sense of humour. He brings out the best in me. I did also marry for money, that is, I married him because I knew we shared the same values: work hard, have fun, spend money on experiences. He has no ambition to earn a lot of money but is ambitious in other ways (he defended two PhDs summa cum laude) and he is reasonable… Read more »
Todd
Todd
4 years 3 months ago
Damn. There are some intelligent, normal people on this site. I was cringing to read these comments because I’m used to reading comments on cnn.com articles, reddit, and bodybuilding.com – I was convinced that the world and 99% of people were worthless id10t’s. Very refreshing to see well thought out, intelligent, responses! I also love the scored women who shit on marriage. LOL – these are the lamest of the lame. I’m married. I’m American and I chose to marry a Ukrainian woman. Why? Because she APPRECIATES money. She was making around $5 per day, working as a DOCTOR in… Read more »
Myles
Myles
4 years 3 months ago

What constitutes “money” ?
If you love someone and they really love you back wouldn’t they try and help pay for rent, food, clothes?
I mean if you have to work 3 jobs and he sits at home playing modern warfare ,does he actually love you anyways?
-just a thought from a husband of three months

Brandon
Brandon
4 years 3 months ago
It’s a nice article, but people get married based on 1) what they need in the other person and 2) who they happen to meet. If they meet someone who they are attracted to/love/fear/whatever (2) and that person has enough of the traits they need (1), then it’s for love. The decision is a mixture of an emotional one with a little logic. Most people either marry who they meet, or look for someone who has the characteristics they want/need. It usually ends as a risk assessment game anyway where that person tries to decide if they will find a… Read more »
Magnus
Magnus
4 years 3 months ago
As a 21/m with a lot of life experience to gain yet I would say lifestyle and outlook. How money is spent is a big part of the lifestyle you are choosing, but thought should go into how it’s earned as well: is travel a big part of this your job, are you working 80 hours, are you working from home or from an office, does your job require you to relocate etc. Everything can be fine, but I think this is more important than the pay and the net worth over the long run. Similarly with outlook: my mom… Read more »
Financial Advice for Young Professionals

Obviously some or maybe even most women marry for love. But when is the last time you saw a poor guy with a hot wife? Let’s not kid ourselves here..

Gordon Worley
4 years 3 months ago

Well, or to make it a finer point, a poor, ugly guy with a hot wife. A poor, hot guy can still get a hot wife.

Kelly
Kelly
4 years 3 months ago

Ramit, I like your gender articles, but listen: if women have to choose between love or money, why can’t the reason for guys just be love? Check yourself.

To answer the question, I’ll always choose love. I like this comment from Lauren: “Smart women make enough money that they can afford to marry whoever the hell they want.”

That’s me. He’s my husband, not my retirement plan.

Steve
Steve
4 years 3 months ago

Indeed. A smart man chooses a woman who is capable of supporting herself, but chooses to be with him anyway.

Julie S
Julie S
4 years 3 months ago

Both genders should marry for security. Love is emotional security, which promotes fidelity. Financial security ensures comfort. Marrying for love or for money are means to the same end: comfortable stability in a long term relationship.

Lindsay
Lindsay
4 years 3 months ago
I couldn’t agree more with Courtney (and I second her article recommendation)–respect has a lot to do with it. I’m at an age where almost all of my friends are married and many are starting to get divorced and remarried. A majority of the successful relationship I see around me are based on mutual respect. Doesn’t matter if the wife stays at home and raises kids and the husband works, or vice versa. Or there aren’t any kids. Or they’re both rich or both broke. If each partner values and respects the other person’s contribution to the marriage–even as time… Read more »
sw
sw
4 years 3 months ago
This has been great time watching all of the varied comments pour in. I’m going to ignore the mindless prattling about how “marriage is a dead institution” as I way in with some observations and questions. In a nutshell, Ginger has thoughtfully put forth the suggestion that women should marry a men with whom they have shared financial goals. I think this is an excellent suggestion and (of course) it goes the other way for men as well. But it’s not really just “financial” goals that Ginger is trying to get at. Nobody really values money in and of itself.… Read more »
lara
lara
4 years 3 months ago

Too simple. Smart women marry for partnership. Both love and money matter.

Myrna Mitchell
Myrna Mitchell
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for LIFE

Quita
Quita
4 years 3 months ago

I am 25, Christian, single, college educated, own my home, volunteer, love traveling and trying new things, enjoy immersing myself in other cultures, and I know how to enjoy my life. Last but not least, I make $50,000 a year.

As a smart woman I hope to marry someone with similar characteristics who also has a good relationship with their family, wants to have children, and will be goofy with me. I don’t take life too seriously so a sense of humor is a must.

David Santy
4 years 3 months ago

I would say that smart women don’t marry for only one primary reason.

David Santy
4 years 3 months ago

I should also clarify that by saying I agree with the comments about “hidden costs.”

People rush into marriage like they rush into buying a home without considering all factors involved. It’s another instance where societal pressure forces us to overlook or ignore very important factors in whether a union or investment will be successful.

Tom C.
Tom C.
4 years 3 months ago
Smart women don’t marry to live out a fairytale, or to secure their financial future. And most important, smart women don’t marry just because everybody else is doing it; they are prepared to spend the rest of their lives surrounded by their family, friends, and people whose lives they’ve chosen to mentor and invest in – or as Katherine Heigl would say, “completely alone.” If romance is important to you then you should look for somebody who at least makes an effort. Not unrealistic/impossible gestures (I’m talking to you, Heigl). I’m talking about buying flowers after a hard days work… Read more »
Suzie
Suzie
4 years 3 months ago
I married someone who made me happy. I have seen plenty of women get stung, so will not be relying on anyone else to fund my retirement. That’s up to me. We have separate bank accounts. Of course I’ll look after him if he needs it, and he would do his best to look after me if I need it, but ultimately my life is MY responsibility. On the plus side, he looks after me when I’m sick, makes my heart flutter when I look at him after four years of marriage, enjoys the same movies/video games that I do,… Read more »
Rachel
4 years 3 months ago
Last I checked, there are about 7 billion people on Earth, so saying that “women marry for this” and “men marry for that” just seems oversimplified. I could care less about what “what men want” (all 3.5 billion guys want the same thing in a marriage? Really?”) What’s more important is knowing what I want, (which is not what all 3.5 billion women want) and cultivating friendships with groups of people who have goals that are compatible with mine. Now, I haven’t been married and I’m in my 40’s, so that might mean that I’m unsuccessful at this whole relationship… Read more »
nan
nan
4 years 3 months ago

I am financially secure and would like to stay that way. My criteria for men has so much more to do with their emotional, mental and physical health than financial. I don’t care how much a guy makes as long as he can comfortably support *his* lifestyle. If our shared life is at a lower price point (ok, not below the poverty line, but lower than what I can afford) that would be fine, too. I wouldn’t feel comfortable if my partner was living beyond his means.

Vicki
Vicki
4 years 3 months ago
I am a semi-smart woman and I married for love -but what I loved and valued besides his flat abs and his long locks, both now history, was his integrity, work ethic, and competence. He treated his mother with great respect and managed his financial life well. The fact that I loved him deeply was born of all of this together. Twenty-eight years later (not Ramit’s demographic) it was the best choice of my life. If he lost his job tomorrow and had to work at 7-11 to meet his obligations, he would do it humbly and well. Our shared… Read more »
Suzie
Suzie
4 years 3 months ago

The way a guy treats his mother is a really good indication of how he will treat you after the initial ‘love is blind’ rush.

JR
JR
4 years 3 months ago

Can’t wait to see the dating/marriage course you’re developing.

Lex
Lex
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women balance marrying for love AND money… AND many other things (socially, professionally, family)

Misty
4 years 3 months ago
This debate is…kind of dumb. First of all, there are many women who don’t necessarily marry for love, even if they say they did to maintain appearances. Second of all, love and money are not the only two choices! People marry for all sorts of reasons. But regardless of all that, women should marry according to their personal values, and not according to what anyone else tells them they “ought” to. It’s none of your business why anyone else chooses to get married. End of story. I don’t normally post negative comments, but Ramit… you need to stop debating what… Read more »
CL
CL
4 years 3 months ago
Upvote. +1 The reason why men comprise a larger portion of your audience than women is because you are putting out these posts without truly thinking about what we want. I know that you sent feelers out, but this is really a guy post for women. It would be better if you did guest posts for this series, because women don’t want to read about this. MEN want to know if women want them for love or for money. Women know what they’re going to marry for already and they don’t need/want to chime in on something like this. MANY… Read more »
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years 3 months ago

My mom always told me “It’s as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor man.” So I really think it comes down to who you surround yourself with. Smart women spend time with people that add value to their lives – whatever that value may be. Personally, I’m going to marry a guy who can pay for dinner and rock my world. I hope he marries me for the same. Hopefully my IQ throws me in that “smart” category enough to weigh in here.

Jenn
Jenn
4 years 3 months ago

As a woman that has been married for 15 years (together for 20) I would like to comment on the view of ‘marry for money’. What I thought of as decent money was dramatically different when I was 24. If I were evaluating the financial side of a potential partner now at age 40, a very different amount of money and lifestyle would be considered suitable. As you age, your perceptions on this will change. If you are picking money – be sure it will suit your long term goals.

Jay S
Jay S
4 years 3 months ago

It is amazing how an injection of a topic that triggers deep emotion can lower the IQ of many intelligent people by at least 30 points.

Bucko
Bucko
4 years 3 months ago
I think this is a great post and a great topic to bring out into a public forum. However, I do take issue with the initial assumption that marrying for love is simply a recent development. I think if one were to look throughout history and simply note the many romance stories that have been written for centuries for example, it’s easy to see that marrying for love is not a new concept (Canterbury tales, Shakespeare, and Emily Bronte come to mind). I think the difference now is that where though in those times marrying for love was something to… Read more »
Liz
4 years 3 months ago

Rehmit- Women ( and men) shoudl marry for life. I believe marriage is an institution, vow and contract between two people. Shallow and scared people marry for money. Idealists and romantics marry for love. Most people are actually somewhere in the middle.

Deon
4 years 3 months ago

230 comments! (as of this post) Ramit you truly are a master of marketing and engaging your audience. Thanks to taking your E1K course (fantastic course btw I still refer to it) I can see step by step how you are gonna provide massive value to all these women very soon.

Jennifer
Jennifer
4 years 3 months ago
I think it depends on if the smart woman in question is younger or older and if she’s a little wealthier or a little poorer. In general (always exceptions!) the older, poorer smart woman will be more likely to marry for money, the older, richer smart woman will be more likely to marry for love (as long she gets to keep control of her money), the younger, poorer smart woman will marry for love if she believes he’s got the potential to make either make money or be the “wife” while she does, or money if she plans to be… Read more »
Zeke
Zeke
4 years 3 months ago

No Finance + No Romance = Nuisance

Tiffany
4 years 3 months ago
My first two boyfriends couldn’t or wouldn’t hold down jobs. One actively refused to work because he felt his parents owed him, I dunno, a free life or something. The other would work until he had a personal problem with his boss or co-workers, then he’d either quit or get fired. I think he’s improved since then, but I haven’t spoken to him in quite some time. Now, if either of them would have cheerfully taken up the full duties of being a house husband, that wouldn’t have bothered me so much. But neither of them would, so I didn’t… Read more »
anonymous
4 years 3 months ago

If you married for money you would be a fool. As the saying goes a FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.

narayan
narayan
4 years 3 months ago

Another vote for “smart men and women marry for shared values.” I love my fiancee, my experience without money live is woring. 1st you have money every persone love you like men/women. withour money no love sucessfull in you life so money is most roll in your life for love and another sucess.

Marian
Marian
4 years 3 months ago

What I want to know is: when Ramit chooses someone to marry, will his brand be an important factor in his selection? Inquiring minds want to know!

Elaine
Elaine
4 years 3 months ago
I was raised by unusally financially-repsonsible parents, so I felt like I had to overlook a lot of bad money habits in men since few had what I had. That just made me stuck married, resentful about how he spent our money while having to parent-them just to maintain my own health. This time around, financial responsiblity is much more a priority as well as maintaining a division of finances in dating and future marriage. But now, I’m lucky to have a man who actually puts my recommendations into practice (maxing out an IRA, cut living costs, and saves for… Read more »
Annika
4 years 3 months ago
I’d like to pretend that money had no part in my decision to initially date,and later stay with my partner, but I’d be fooling myself. In the beginning, if felt kinda cool to be dating a lawyer who is making a name for himself in his field. Now, we’ve been together for 3 years, and we have very similar financial goals and strategies – having this in common has been a HUGE part of our relationship, and I think it’s definitely important for anyone evaluating a potential partner – I’m not saying you have to marry rich, I’m saying you… Read more »
Anthony
Anthony
4 years 3 months ago

I think most women marry for stability and Sensual attraction.. Successful men have that swagger effect I suppose.

I think smart men marry for a woman that will keep them sane during the times that insanity will take over. Perhaps to ground the lofty or to inspire the less creative.

Nebula Grows Weed
4 years 3 months ago
Smart woman marry for… the values that are most important to them. For some women, money is of paramount importance. For these woman, money concerns are more important than any other. For others, financial concerns may be more negotiable. For example, if he’s perfect in every other way, she’s going to be a lot more willing to forgive his $50,000 in debt, especially if she can see he works hard and has a plan to pay it off. Now to really answer your question… Smart women choose to marry based on how their man makes them feel. If she wants… Read more »
huda
huda
4 years 3 months ago

What means love? What makes different people fall in love?

Dom
Dom
4 years 3 months ago
I find this incredibly offensive and sexist. While many people in history did marry for tactical reasons, it was women who were the cartel, and were forced into situations of misery and subservience. History is full of women who were regularly beaten, and guidelines for how to do this “properly” were common to come by. The fact they women have only gained the vote in the last 90 years shows our culture’s contempt for this gender. The attitudes on the pages of this blog sum up why America and its “philosophy” is so deeply unpopular in this world. The hideous… Read more »
aliceruth
aliceruth
4 years 3 months ago

@Dom, thank you! I unsubscribed but I had to come back and see what people are saying. He wanted to drive traffic, I guess!

Tara M.
Tara M.
4 years 3 months ago
I think that boiling down your marriage aspirations to either just money or just love is a foolish decision, although I believe that there are people who make bad marriage decisions because of their (erroneous) belief that money alone or love alone will make them happy. Also, I don’t think that kind of person makes a good mate anyways. People who think in terms of only one dimension tend to be very one-dimensional themselves. I agree with what Ricky Raw said, and I think he touches on a nerve…people don’t want to think that they might be immediately rejected by… Read more »
Janine
Janine
4 years 3 months ago
Hey Ramit, To clarify, I was open regarding my debt since the very beginning of the relationship. It was my boyfriend’s idea to move in together so I could lower my cost of living and pay down the debt faster. The problem in the relationship arose when he wanted me to purchase new furniture for the place and to go on trips, to which I replied that I could not afford to do so as paying off the debt was my priority and the whole reason for moving in. Without consulting me, he had assumed I could just simply pay… Read more »
J. B. Rainsberger
4 years 3 months ago

I have ended up with someone who shares many significant values with me, including how to manage money. I don’t know how it could have worked out any other way. I feel deeply bad for people in relationships who don’t have that. If we began to drift apart on those values, then the relationship would have to end. How could it be otherwise?

J. B. Rainsberger
4 years 3 months ago

Also, what does “marrying for money” mean, anyway? Marrying someone who will do all the work earning money so that I don’t have to? or merely marrying someone who won’t undo all the good work I do earning money? The latter just doesn’t sound like “marrying for money”, but rather “marrying for compatible values”.

Casey
Casey
4 years 3 months ago
I submit that assessing a potential partner’s financial situation is necessary to Smart Men & Women for the following reasons: 1. Financials provide objective information, which allows smart men and women to be more confident when making projections of their future selves: No one can predict how long a partnership will last. If it’s 5 years or 50, when you share your life with another human you will change. Nothing is certain but death and taxes (You will age, and being a part of society costs money). Everything else is variable. Especially when you have kids, and you become bald,… Read more »
Kris
Kris
4 years 3 months ago
Money and love are two very complex topics on their own. With regard to the debt question, I have to say, it really depends what kind of debt that is. If it’s a student loan for med/law school, anything that means this debt roughly equals the first entry level salary for their chosen profession in combination with a solid plan that prioritizes repaying this debt within the next 5-10 years in combination with some savings/investment plan, would be totally acceptable and would testify of their ambition and ability to handle things. 30k in debt for cars, shoes, clothes, electronic gadgets,… Read more »
Ornella
4 years 3 months ago
Ramit, I can see your post has generated quite a buzz. There are woman who marry for money and other who marry for love. And then there are women who marry for both. Money plays an important role in relationships. Sometimes women get duped into the romantic dream of “marriage.” Aside from the personal, spiritual, religious union of two people in love with each “marriage,” the legal matters of marriage is just as important…it affects how you file your taxes and the benefits your receive or at least entitled to because you are married. Men and women do view money… Read more »
Mia
Mia
4 years 3 months ago
A lot of really interesting comments to this entry. I’ve enjoyed seeing all the different perspectives. I believe smart women AND men should really take the time to think about what they’re looking for in a relationship–particularly a long-term one like marriage. I tell this to my male friends all the time because most of them never consciously contemplate what they’re looking for in someone they want to be in a relationship with (many fall back on the “I know it when I see it” or “it just feels right”) and then go on to complain that all their relationships… Read more »
Vikram
Vikram
4 years 3 months ago

What about yourself, Ramit? Would you marry a “good Indian girl” your parents introduced you to, perhaps a close family friend you grew up knowing? The chances of that succeeding would be statistically very high, and you would know that on a gut level, with less need for an intellectual analysis. So where’s the multiple-choice options for us brown folks, even those born and raised in the US? 🙂

Kelly
Kelly
4 years 3 months ago

A good business partner. Marriage is a business. You’d better like spending a hell of a lot of time together, be able to withstand failures and learn from them, and you need to consider money. Do you trust each other with money? What assets are you bringing to the partnership? If I wouldn’t be willing to go into business with someone, I would not marry that person either.

It’s not a matter of what women marry for vs. what men marry for.

Kelly
Kelly
4 years 3 months ago

Having read responses above, let me add:

Thinking of marriage as a business doesn’t make it a cold, emotionless transaction, people. Come on. You’d really run a business with someone you don’t like? I don’t think so. You’d get sick of that really fast.

Lex
Lex
4 years 3 months ago

First, define smart.
How? It’s defined by our scripts.
For some, smart would be choosing romantic love over anything else.
For others, smart would be choosing financial stability by dependence.
For others, balancing both.
For others working as a team for financial, emotional and social goals.
And even for others smart would be not getting married.

Our definition of “smart” changes by the scripts we have learned and consciously or unconsciously follow. 🙂

Deacon
4 years 3 months ago

I like to think my wife married me for more than my money skills. Actually, I know that is true because I wasn’t good with money when we got married. It wasn’t until after the fact that I developed a strong passion for personal finance.

Areya
Areya
4 years 3 months ago
First of all, I’m married to my work. However, if by some weird change of heart I were to marry someone, I would make sure I was still financially independent and I would keep my finances completely separate from my partner’s, whether my partner has good finances or not. Sure, how well my prospective partner manages money will probably be a contributing factor to my decision to marry that person, and I honestly wouldn’t want to marry someone with loads of debt. But that isn’t the only factor I would consider. In other words, it isn’t a deal-breaker, because I… Read more »
Lucille
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for….ideas! If there’s mental stimulation the rest will fall into place. Most people marry out of boredom!

G
G
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for security. That means financial stability, the assurance that this person will care for them regardless of how they grow old, get sick etc., and the knowledge that this person can be a good father to any future children.
Men marry more for looks and for a partner that will support them emotionally.
That being said, younger men and women who have increased earning power are less willing to shoulder the burden of a mate’s debt.
Everyone realizes that marriage is not solely about about love, it’s a contract.

Cameron
Cameron
4 years 3 months ago

Why is everyone talking like this is a conscious decision? Women and men marry the best person available in an evolutionary sense. For women, a major criteria is security for the success of offspring. Money is a big factor here, but so is love and love for the offspring…

twong
twong
4 years 3 months ago
Often on IWT, Ramit brings up research on speed dating where men and women both SAY that they’re looking for looks PLUS ancillary qualities… only to have it all fall apart when the date happens (i.e. when the previously stated preferences are subject to the test). See “5 fascinating experiments from the world of psychology and persuasion” posted on January 19, 2011 for a discussion on the myth of “I know who I’m attracted to”. Clearly, Ramit is gathering data on stated preferences for a marriage partner… But what happens when these preference are subject to the test of marriage?… Read more »
Jem
Jem
4 years 3 months ago

I think it has less to do with where you are currently as opposed to your current trajectory. I met my boyfriend 2 years ago, just a few months after ending 18 months of collecting unemployment checks. He made roughly 5x what I did. Now he makes about twice what I do. How long until he makes half of what I do?

People fall into poverty all the time due to circumstance. I don’t think you should judge them for it. But go ahead and judge them if they aren’t trying to do something about it.

qsmith
qsmith
4 years 3 months ago

because they don’t want to have regrets latter on that they should have married.

Michael
Michael
4 years 3 months ago
Every time I read a comment that accuses Ramit of sexism, I roll my eyes and die a little inside. Where does this hypersensitivity and feigned outrage come from? Here are a few observations to consider. Food for thought. 1. The overwhelming majority of readers are interested in (a) what Ramit has to say, and (b) thoughtful comments from other readers that contribute something meaningful or insightful to the conversation. Very few, if any, readers are interested in (c) highly emotional and negative criticism. When you post a comment in anger, it is a purely selfish act — it contributes… Read more »
Jess H.
Jess H.
4 years 3 months ago
1. I think it’s quite interesting that you assume that anyone who has trouble with the way Ramit talks about gender is posting “highly emotional and negative criticism” “in anger.” Is it possible that the people who are bothered by this have a valid perspective? Perhaps you might check your own emotional reactions on this topic. 2. Ramit is incredibly smart; I have to imagine he’s noticing the ways in which his gender posts are, and aren’t, succeeding with his target audience. If Ramit is saying things that bug women, don’t you think he’d like to know how to communicate… Read more »
Michael
Michael
4 years 3 months ago
@ Jess H. (May 21, 2012 at 1:05 pm) Thank you for your comment. I would like to clarify a few issues, because I think you misinterpreted my comment. My opening line was a little inflammatory, and I apologize if this led to confusion. Can’t win ’em all. I think you read the opening lines of my comment, thought “this guy is a jerk,” and then interpreted the rest of it in the context of that first impression. Is that a fair assessment? I would appreciate it if you could do me a favor, reconsider that first impression and re-read… Read more »
Jess H.
Jess H.
4 years 3 months ago

Aha! Yes, the “hypersensitivity” and “feigned outrage,” combined with the reference to “political correctness” (a term I never hear anyone use except as a straw man), made me think you were saying something rather different. Your clarification makes much more sense. I think we are mostly on the same page, as you say.

I do still want more Ramit beatdown, though.

Kim R.
Kim R.
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for both love and money. You marry for love based on a mutually held understanding of the world or at least with respect to each other’s beliefs. You marry for money at a financial level with which you would be comfortable or your partner’s ability to create more wealth and reach your comfort level. It’s completely about what your comfortable with – some disregard this aspect, holding on to expectations at the risk of falling behind the Joneses and end up unhappy with the result.

May
4 years 3 months ago
I think Love. Because smart women can afford it. I’m pretty sure that I have the mental prowess to support a man if need be. I’ve got a good education and means to get good work. So I’m not too fussed if my man isn’t rich. I’m more concerned about finding someone whose company I am going to enjoy. Women who don’t have options marry for money. However, having said that, I also consulted my housemate who said that everyone has a tipping point. At some point when weighting up Love against $X, the scales are bound to tip so… Read more »
Vijay
Vijay
4 years 3 months ago
I don’t even know what “love” truly is. What I do know is that smart men and women marry for happiness. What makes one happy? Several things. And financial uncertainty is not one of them. If I found out my girlfriend has $30,000 of debt, I’d try to understand the reason. If I find out that the reason is that because of her upbringing she does not respect and value money, I’d drop her like a hot potato. If I find out that there were circumstances beyond her control and she’s trying hard (and making progress, however slow), and if… Read more »
alyssaw
alyssaw
4 years 3 months ago

smart women should marry for support and love and longevity of companionship. but smart women are also educated and motivated to advance their own career so they can support themselves if marrying for love doesn’t work out, or their partner doesn’t end up making enough to retire early or travel often.

E. S.
E. S.
4 years 3 months ago

I married my husband because he was totally willing to follow me across the globe to pursue an academic career. Love is a necessary but not sufficient condition. I’ll happily date someone I love, I’ll only marry someone whose long-term life path is compatible with mine.

He’s likely to make more money than me once we settle down. That’s not entirely coincidental; I like competent men. I also supported him through getting his degree. Smart women will get both, one way or another.

Jason
Jason
4 years 3 months ago
Smart people, men or women, marry for partnership, however they define that most importantly for them. They marry someone to provide for them in the ways that it is important for them to be provided for, be that as a financial partner, an emotional partner, a physical partner, a spiritual (or “metaphysical”, if you prefer) partner, or most likely some combination of those and probably other things as well. Less… let’s say less conscientious people marry for how they feel at the time, without considering how well they partner with their partner… probably without understanding how or what to consider… Read more »
Financial Advice for Young Professionals

My gf is becoming a doctor, so I’ll be marrying for money haha jk, I mean love.

magda
magda
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for love. They are smart so they can make money themselves. They don’t need rich husband for that.

Tim B
Tim B
4 years 3 months ago
I agree. The highest values are: Truth, Honor, Character and Integrity. That is what smart men look for…I’ve had relationships with those that were– smart, –nominally smart and –not exceedingly smart; with respect to this conversation. Offer a smart man those clearly defined characteristics and he will honor you with a lifetime of commitment: whether one is supremely smart or marginally below sea level. But, for clarification, we need to define first and foremost what definitions we are confining or liberating “smart” to be? Speaking in these generalities usually lends to confusion and misunderstanding. Ask me–I know what it takes!
Tim B
Tim B
4 years 3 months ago
…oops, I meant to say that “Love” is causal—or a result of the aforementioned characteristics that are magnetically appealing. Love is the ‘Result’ of affections caused by an attraction towards: Honor, Truth, Honesty, Character and Integrity. Love is only blind to the “Needy”–those that are searching in earnest and passion. Love is like the wallpaper, paint, hanging art, bouquet of flowers on the vase, fire in the hearth, clean carpets and warm shower running. The attractions are the foundations (Honor, Integrity…et al). Love is fragile unless the foundations are permanently galvanized. Love is not an emotion but rather a completion… Read more »
kbmiami
4 years 3 months ago

Smart women marry for life. Life means love and money. There’s more to life than money but money is energy.

kbmiami
4 years 3 months ago

PS — Men marry for looks (women who look younger and appear more fertile)
It’s evolutionary. Women marry for assets (men who can take care of them while they’re fertile) It’s evolutionary. Not that it’s all about babies, but again, it’s about “life.”

Drew C
Drew C
4 years 3 months ago

I feel like most commenters are trying to make this decision more complex than it really is. You marry someone because you want to spend the rest of your life with them. It’s supposed to be a life-long commitment, but too many times today, people view it as a contract that can (and usually will) be broken. You only marry someone when you can commit to spending life together through great times and bad times.

Josh Lee
Josh Lee
4 years 3 months ago
Just reading all the comments about people’s expectation for marriage, many women will end up permanently single, divorced, or disappointed in their marriage. Women should look at a marriage as finding a partner who they’re compatible with and can mostly accept the other person’s flaws, including financial ones. In the old days, most women didn’t work, so they had to get married unless they wanted to live with their parents forever. If women are looking for someone with all the qualities they’re listing in this comments thread, there’s just not enough eligible men around for all these women. Most men… Read more »
edith
edith
4 years 3 months ago

your opening comment sun it up. love will fade when the two people in love cannot meet up with financail challenges

sonja
sonja
4 years 3 months ago

My parents never had much money in their life, but they loved each other deeply to the end and this love helped them in tough times when they lost every material thing they had. I believe that without love marriage cannot succeed. We should be thankful for what we have and be satisfied with small and important things (health, to be with each other, to be with our friends and family etc.)… We should enjoy in life and be happy with what we already have in life…

Joyce
Joyce
4 years 2 months ago
There are many, many factors that determine whom a woman will choose for a husband. A man can be financially stable and still be a slob who needs a mother to run around picking up after him. For sure, a man can be financially stable and perhaps even be considered wealthy and still be unfaithful and even sleazy. So, stability is good. It’s just not enough by itself. Personally, I want a man who is my equal in talent and intelligence. Someone who will love and respect me and help me to be my best by offering encouragement and emotional… Read more »
Kevin
Kevin
4 years 2 months ago
I must say I am new to this site. BUT Wow……..these comments provide a real good insight into what goes on in people’s head with real delicate topics like this. You know, these comments section of yours are the 2nd most helpful thing on this site. Especially because of its huge number(and lack of trolls which is more important), you can see patterns emerging in opinions giving you a general idea of what the people you meet on a daily basis would want. I’ve been looking for a source of information like this and I’m glad you’ve already done half… Read more »
CarlJameson
11 months 7 hours ago

I agree with most women who commented here. When a smart women marries, it’s never for just one reason. They know their value and are fully confident of who they should be with.

Theo Mench
10 months 3 days ago

Hey, I’m thinking of having breast implant surgery. My question is about going under muscle as I am extremely active meaning that I do crossfit. Does anybody have any recommendations? I am still to see the the surgeon as I am still uncertain about the surgery. Thankyou

Michael
Michael
6 months 23 days ago
women are irrational with money and 99.9% of them will leave you broke, you save a measly $3,000 when you meet guess what your broke within a very short period because you have to deal with i dont know what i want etc… women play games and at 42 years old i would rather have the money at least i could buy a hooker if i wanted to, women are irrational and will play all sorts of manipulative games to keep you lusting over the vagina while you get no sex when you want it, until women can come to… Read more »
house of eros range
6 months 4 days ago

Most popular flash apps are of a naughty nature, so if you.

One more incorrect use of the term Soft Swinging is when it is
referred to couples where the ladies play exclusively or with very
limited amount of interaction. When you stop and watch the way people react
to you, you’ll learn a lot more than if you listen to what they are saying.

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5 months 17 days ago
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dina
dina
4 months 6 days ago
All people , men and women need stability, it is very important to have comforts, financial stability, and a person to share and enjoy life with. Money and respect, love and shared wants are a must, just money in a marriage must be very shallow? just love is empty without comfortable life, so i guess its a reason why so many divorce sometimes hard to get that right ratio. Money in all relationships to do with a home and a car revolve around money. However with out love what a empty meaningless life so i Guess it falls down to… Read more »
TheRealTruth
TheRealTruth
3 months 24 days ago

Career women are Not marriage material at all since they’re so very Money Hungry all the time.

Paul
Paul
3 months 21 days ago

The Worse women of all to get married too for many of us Good men are the Career women which they’re always money hungry.

Jay
Jay
3 months 9 days ago

Well i certainly know one thing is that i will Never at all marry a Career woman.

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3 months 5 days ago

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Janey
Janey
2 months 24 days ago

I am marrying for compatibility.

We’re both over 55, successful entrepreneurs, and millionaires.

For a woman, I’m have a strong masculine streak. For a man, he has a strong feminine streak.

Freud would say this is a relationship destined for happiness long term. We were both brought up in loving homes, and still have loving relationships with our opposite sex parent. We each resemble each other’s opposite sex parent — in looks and attitude.

Francine George
Francine George
2 months 24 days ago
I hit the jackpot when I found a man who loves well. He’s so wonderful. Reliable, authentic, considerate, and financially stable. We met 10 years ago at a party, ended up working at the same company, and then lost touch. We liked each other but nothing was ever said. (I was his boss.) Fast forward 5 years: Out of the blue he contacted me to catch up, so we set up a business dinner. After dessert he turned to me and said, “You know, I’ve been crazy about you for years.” That’s all it took. We’ve been inseparable ever since.… Read more »
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2 months 21 days ago

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TheGod'sHonestTruth
TheGod'sHonestTruth
1 month 9 days ago

Most Career Women are such losers anyway. No great loss there.

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1 month 4 days ago
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