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My interview with a pickup artist

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About 18 months ago, I was in a strategy meeting with my publisher. There were about 7 people around the table — all women. (Most of publishing is women.) We were discussing which markets to promote my book to, and we’d discussed all the obvious ones: Men 24-35, women, moms, parents, etc.

Then I spoke up. “I want to talk to the pickup artists.”

The room got quiet. “Who?” somebody asked.

“There’s a huge sub-culture of guys who help other guys learn how to be more confident and get a girlfriend,” I said. “They’re all interested in self-development and psychology — which is exactly what my book is about.”

“Ugh,” somebody else said. “Is this like those guys who ‘neg’ women to try to take them home from bars?”

I was not surprised to hear the skepticism. Pickup artists (PUA) have gotten a terrible name — and rightfully so. They first become famous through the fascinating book, The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists, and have gone on to create a multi-million-dollar market.

The main idea was to help men learn how to approach and engage women. It could be used for short-term gain or to help men become more confident and get into long-term relationships. Personally, I have many friends who could benefit from some coaching.

Predictably, many people saw only the surface applications and were angry. Common complaints include “How dare they use tricks on women,” “Only certain kinds of girls fall for this crap,” and “This is only for weirdos who have no social life.”

However, I was hearing dozens and dozens of stories from guys who’d had success from using the principles. Notice I said principles — not tactics. Principles underlie everything you do and are critically important to long-term behavioral change.

For example, I can teach you a cool negotiation script — a tactic — and it will probably work. But once you use it, have you changed anything long-term? No. That comes with automating the behavior and changing your overall mindset.

So I got interested. I investigated the field. I examined the principles and tactics. I made friends with some people in the field.

And I became simultaneously fascinated and disgusted.

I was fascinated because pickup artists employ extremely sophisticated applied persuasion techniques, including inoculation, commitment, and social influence. They rigorously test their ideas to find out which works. And they are committed to deeply understanding their approach.

However, pickup artists quickly became ethically questionable. The first players in this game kept it to themselves and a small group of people, who all shared techniques to encourage self-development. Once The Game launched, the market exploded — and where there are young guys with money, there is a rich market.

To many, pickup artists became less about self-development and more about extremely expensive seminars and bootcamps.

Now, I have nothing against expensive educational material. In fact, I sell some of the most expensive material you can buy on earning more money. And it is extremely good. But I can only sell it for such a high price because my free material works — and my premium material works even better. Slowly, steadily, I’ve built up trust with my readers over the last 6 years.

Some of the PUA guys are very, very good. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. But many are bad and sleazy, and the field is now filled with a combination of excellent instructors and disenchanted customers who were promised a quick fix but failed to see it — even after spending thousands of dollars.

The importance of being interdisciplinary

It’s controversial to talk about pickup on this site. Women get angry, men scoff publicly (but secretly go Google “PUA forum”), and nobody likes thinking that we’re susceptible to scripts and techniques to get us to go to bed with someone else.

But I’m going to talk about PUA anyway.

Do you know why?

Because you need to be more interdisciplinary.

Enough reading 50 blogs about the same topic.

For example, I’m honestly bored by most personal-finance sites. With a few excellent exceptions, most of it is trite, conformist, and reveals very few new insights about money. Instead, I read books and blogs on psychology, persuasion, deception, biology, health and fitness, entrepreneurship, and gender relations.

And that is why I like to think this site keeps you engaged.

This is why I bring you exclusive material like my interview with BJ Fogg, a Stanford psychologist who is one of the foremost experts on persuasion.

It’s why I did an interview with my friend Derek Sivers, a successful entrepreneur who’s a keen observer of human behavior that’s systematically studied how to get disproportionate results.

It’s why I emphasize negotiation and testing and the psychology of money, not just saving money on cat food.

And that’s why I did an interview with a group of pickup artists.

I hope this doesn’t offend you. There are critical insights to be gained here, even if the topic is controversial. And I think you’ll find that I presented my argument respectfully.

If you are offended, let me remind you that skepticism is not a strategy.

If you’re open to the ideas, I invite you to listen. I covered some material that will challenge the way you think — specifically about the similarities between the personal finance and pickup.

How are personal finance and pickup similar?

  • We all think we “should” know about money — and meeting women (or men) — but nobody really teaches us
  • Friends give us random “tips” and “tricks” (say this! invest in that!) but we never have a holistic, systematic understanding of the process
  • It’s taboo to talk about money — and it’s taboo to talk about how you’re failing with women
  • Quick wins are important, but BIG WINS — attitudinal and behavioral changes — provide the best long-term benefits
  • We can read book after book about investing…but it means nothing until we implement
  • Testing is critical
  • 99% of people will stop at the surface of both topics — PUA and personal finance — but the very few, the very best, will see them as deeply connected in the area of self-development. This is why so many people who succeed in automating their finances go on to improve themselves in health & fitness, public speaking, and relationships
  • Many more

Making connections between fields is so important. For instance, in undergrad and grad school, I took courses on negotiation, deception, cults, magic, minority influence, organizational development, group dynamics, arbitration, personality/social psychology, persuasive technology, and social systems.

Some were controversial. But every one contributed to my views on human behavior.

And I hope to bring that to you through this site and my premium products.

If you’re interested in checking out my interview with Jordan Harbinger of The Art of Charm, I’ve put together the full 69-min recording for you. I’ve included a transcript, too.

This is free to readers of “I Will Teach You To Be Rich” — but in exchange, I ask that you trust me with your name and email address so I can continue to challenge the way you think.

You can get the recording of my pickup podcast interview, here:

(Can’t see the form? Click here to sign up.)

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Casey Friday
5 years 6 months ago

This is extremely fascinating. I think one of the traits of extremely successful people is their uncanny ability to achieve effectiveness through unorthodox measures. Great article, Ramit.

Paul Rubillo
5 years 6 months ago
Hi Ramit, The problem I see with many when it comes to money is that either one ignores all there is they need to know (maybe some basic knowledge – putting one’s check in the bank doesn’t count), or when it comes to investing anyway – skip the simplicity of buying stocks and go right for options trading. I cringe every time I meet new investors that tell me they have blown hundreds of dollars learning the basics of options trading. The words, “Basic” and “Options Trading” don’t belong in the same sentence! This is a results-now society we live… Read more »
Rick L.
Rick L.
5 years 6 months ago

[NOTE FROM RAMIT]

I deleted this comment. It was left by a troll who has been using multiple names and email addresses and has left only negative comments — over 10 of them, in fact — with no constructive feedback.

Casey Friday
5 years 6 months ago
This is interesting. I haven’t been following Ramit long enough to get this impression of him, but this is almost the EXACT impression from many other bloggers who make their income solely from their blogs, such as Everett Bogue, Tammy Strobel, and Karol Gajda. The products I bought from them didn’t seem to help me achieve anything extraordinary that I wasn’t already achieving in my life. I guess the point of a service like this is to conglomerate information into an easily digestible format for people who don’t want to figure things out on their own. Once again, I haven’t… Read more »
David Weisberger
5 years 6 months ago

Interesting, I thought that the step-by-step worksheets, like the scripts and other practical tools, were what set 1K apart for me. I definitely didn’t work through everything, but have been able to apply it to my existing business. What was your experience with the *activities* as opposed to the passive *content*?

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Sachit Gupta
Sachit Gupta
5 years 6 months ago

Interesting choice of image – I guess you’re referring to the ‘peacocking’ technique? A lot of PUAs are actually moving away from using scripts so interesting choice :P. From the ones I’ve talked to, its more about concentrating on things like ‘inner game’ and actually improving yourself. Can’t wait to check out the interview!

Tai
Tai
5 years 6 months ago
Ramit, most finance blogs cover the same topics as your book did. Seeing as how you consider yourself an expert in personal finance, it’s pretty logical that you would not want to read more about something you already know well. Similarly, I purchased your book, but I’d say about 90% of it was information I already knew and did. I did get some value out of a handful of chapters as well as reading it from another person’s viewpoint rather than a mixture of financial websites. As a result of my experience with your book and the name of your… Read more »
Tai
Tai
5 years 6 months ago
Just finished listening to the podcast. I didn’t expect it to be mostly about personal finance. Good if you haven’t read I Will Teach You To Be Rich or if you need a refresher on the concepts. Would love if you did a case interview on them and about what their goals for personal development are, and how they set about achieving them. Also, to clarify, I am not bashing Ramit’s book. Ramit’s book is a sound primer to personal finance. Even if you already have experience with personal finance, it’s still worth it to have all the information presented… Read more »
Mel
Mel
5 years 6 months ago
Hi guys, I’m looking for some feedback that is indirectly related to personal finance. I use the term indirectly because if the project works, I can negotiate a raise out of it. Instead of asking people to pay me for a service, I want to pay them for their time. Yet, I’m at a loss for how to build a rapport that get the results I want. I work for a company that conducts clinical trials for pharmaceutical companies. Often, we rely on word of mouth and purchased databases to recruit people to participate in trials. The other half of… Read more »
Tai
Tai
5 years 6 months ago
Busy managers probably have a lot of employees, and the ones that would be most interested in doing a clinical trial would be the ones that need more hours. Perhaps you can suggest to the managers that you can work with some of the employees’ who are requesting additional hours and rather than having them work overtime or changing from part-time to full-time. Assuming it’s not a dangerous trial, it’s a win/win for everyone, because those employees are also the most likely to need more money. Also, some of the employees might have problems getting too and from the test… Read more »
Tai
Tai
5 years 6 months ago

Oh, additionally, if you need to pitch it to your sponsor, offering transportation should increase participation rates, increase overall attendance rates, and decrease the number of dropouts.

Best option would be to pick up the normal bus route that they take to get to work and drop them off at their workplace at the end *or* pick them up from their workplaces and drive the normal bus route they use to get back home, saving them bus fare and not greatly interrupting their normal travel routine.

James
James
5 years 6 months ago

I purchased your book exactly oneyear ago. I never cracked it. I stumbled across it a week ago in my I pad library. I can not get enough. Your street sense attitude towards improving so many areas of life is a breath of fresh air. And the pua email is brilliant.

alcibiades424
alcibiades424
5 years 6 months ago
It’s pretty unfortunate that this is my first comment, since usually I love Ramit’s stuff and I just used his advice about overpreparing for interviews to land my dream internship. But I still have to say that the reason people react so negatively to the pickup artist community is that the vast majority of websites/books are written by scum who have an open contempt for women and explicitly assume that their readers will manipulate women into having sex by lying about their willingness to develop a long-term relationship. Yes, there’s probably a few books out there that emphasize respect and… Read more »
yohami
5 years 6 months ago

“having sex by lying about their willingness to develop a long-term relationship.”

its actually the opposite, you should clear your data

Joseph Dantes
5 years 6 months ago

Alcibiades, name 5 pickup artists who recommend lying about your willingness for long term relationships.

Naming 5 should be no problem since it’s the “vast majority.”

As for manipulating women, that’s a laugh. Women’s social skills are at least 1 standard deviation more advanced than men’s, whether visual, auditory or multi-channel. And it shows in relationship outcomes.

It’s like accusing 3rd world sweat shop workers of exploiting MNCs.

Imelda
Imelda
5 years 5 months ago

“the vast majority of websites/books are written by scum who have an open contempt for women and explicitly assume that their readers will manipulate women into having sex by lying”

This is the heart of the comment, not the bits the above two commenters nitpicked. And Alcibiades, you are exactly right. I was stunned that Ramit’s “disgust” with the PUAs comes entirely from scams they may run on clients, and not the gross way they objectify and dehumanize women.

yohami
5 years 6 months ago

cool, it was kind of obvious you were into pickup

Mel
Mel
5 years 6 months ago
Tai, thanks for the suggestions. It’s clear you have some familiarity with the industry as you used the term sponsor. I think you are right concerning the bit about employees who need extra cash. I will definitely consider that because it makes sense. Do you think these 3 key points will help me get my foot in the door? Helps employees who might lack health care (i.e. less sick days) Provides supplemental income to employees (less pressure to provide staff extra hours or OT) Referral fee (they get paid everytime someone from their place enrolls) While I agree with providing… Read more »
Tai
Tai
5 years 6 months ago
Forget about the transport issues. Just give them all free bus tickets. I can’t think of anything outside of those 3 points. Increase employee morale and productivity (healthier, more money), but that’s a stretch. Rehearse a lot. Have points prepared for common objections. Try to keep it natural. Ask those you referred what their primary motivation for signing up was. Start your own call list or email list. Possibly refer them to surveys/focus groups, as well? Don’t go overboard, ensure it will be one e-mail/call a month, tops, and they can be dropped whenever, keep the offers HQ. Lastly, I… Read more »
Darryl
Darryl
5 years 6 months ago

Hey I havent heard the podcast as im not on the computer but my mobile. I laughed at your comment about the troll, yet least he leaves a comment. Personally I really enjoyed the game, that was for relationships, taught me a lot about myself aswell and this game you bring is the relationship with business. Impressed how you mix the both. Heard my mom negotiating over the phone, she got an expired gift certificate to be renewed. What id like to know is what do to with 1k to make it 10k? by investing?

Tom
Tom
5 years 6 months ago

This sounds absolutely fascinating and I’d love to read it, but 69 minutes is a long time. Is there a transcript or summary?

Tom
Tom
5 years 6 months ago

Of course I mean “I’d love to listen to it” but in fact if it was readable that would be better!

Anca
Anca
5 years 6 months ago

There is indeed a transcript.

Martin
5 years 6 months ago
I’ve observed one key point that seperates Ramit, Tim Ferriss, and the PUA material I’ve digested from the guys at Charisma Arts (Wayne Elise), from all the “scum” in the personal finance, business, and PUA world. They advocated full-scope self-improvement. Every one of these guys doesn’t set off my sleeze alarm, because they all tell me to be myself. It’s not that their material is groundbreaking or new. These guys are not the researchers. They take research that’s already been done, and assimilate it into easy-to-digest material, and apply it to everyday life. I mean, at the foundation, here are… Read more »
Martin
5 years 6 months ago

Ramit,

Thanks, man! I could say the same for you! 😉

Leif David
5 years 6 months ago
I’m a professional magician and an amateur PUA student. Studying pickup techniques have defiantly impacted the way I perform my close-up magic because it exists with the same social context. In both situations you’re approaching a group who doesn’t know who you are, or what you want, and your job is to rapidly build rapport with them. Ramit you like specific examples so I’ll give you one. In pickup its said over and over again that when you approach a group they don’t care who you are, and they certainly don’t care what your name is. The “Hi I’m Ramit,… Read more »
Holly
Holly
5 years 6 months ago

I have to agree with this. One of the most awkward encounters I’ve ever had involved a man coming up to me in a grocery store, saying “Hi, I’m Bill”, offering his hand, then looking very nervous and walking off even after I shook his hand and gave my name in return. I’m for PUA tactics that cut down on this kind of thing that’s just awkward for everyone involved.

Anca
Anca
5 years 6 months ago

I was really looking forward to the interview because I was under the impression that you were interviewing them, but it’s actually the other way around; they were interviewing you about money. That’d be great except I’m on the last chapter of your book anyway. A little misleading advertising, Ramit? I would still be interested in reading your “boiled-down” explanation of PUA & psychology if you ever decide to do it.

Leif David
5 years 6 months ago

@Ramit: If you ever have any questions about magic, just drop me an email and I’ll do my best to answer your questions.

John
John
5 years 6 months ago
Hey, I was thinking about interaction lately. Most people are not wired to make links between things that do not seem interrelated at first. I don’t know if it is possible to learn. But every major invention came from such an interaction. Think about Morse, who forced himself to make a link between horses relay stations and signal. A few months ago, I thought I had spotted the field I would study all my life. But I few weeks passed… and I was bored. I need to dig one field really deep for a month ore two, and then go… Read more »
Richard H Lawson
Richard H Lawson
5 years 6 months ago

A 69 minute interview, how apt.

I like the way you use positive reinforcement via your comments.

Keep up the good work 😉

Tom
5 years 6 months ago

I am fascinated with the idea of the T-Shaped mind – like what John was talking about where your specialist area of inquiry intersects with your wide general knowledge.

Good stuff.

mp
5 years 6 months ago
Hi Ramit, I’ve been reading your site for almost a year now, and have been following through the “hustle” series although I haven’t commented yet. I just wanted to say that this past month or so, I’ve loved how your articles are basically just a tons of different ways to get people to act and simply act on what they have always said they would do (whether to themselves or others). A little over a year ago, I left a super-secure government job, packed all my belongings into a storage space, found renters to live in my house and move… Read more »
Sikander
Sikander
5 years 6 months ago
This is interesting – two subcultures I’ve been following for awhile seem to have intersected! I’m referring of course to people who want to ‘hack’ the methods of getting rich, and the methods of courting women. I guess the reason I’m fascinated by both your blog and the methods of the PUAs (the non-sleazy ones) is because I subscribe to the notion that sustained disciplined effort can cause incredible change. Like a scatterbrain pulling his act together and saving much more money than his friends. Or a nervous, awkward never-spoken-to-a-girl-before finally getting to 2nd base. I can’t honestly say I’ve… Read more »
yohami
5 years 6 months ago

its not the effort, its the results what matter. You need to put a lot of hard work to learn the skills that get you the results, but this is never about ”how hard you work” on its own. Pinnacle is 99% what matters.

Sikandar
Sikandar
5 years 6 months ago

@Yohami:

Food for thought (if you’ve 20 minutes):

http://www.ted.com/talks/john_wooden_on_the_difference_between_winning_and_success.html

That coming from a man who coached UCLA to 86 consecutive wins.

yohami
5 years 6 months ago

@Sikandar

good stuff

Jae
Jae
5 years 6 months ago

I get an error trying to download the mp3:
“AccessDeniedAccess DeniedF03269B5CCCC65EDMBVaUGV6n94udLc7kMjeQl8v+NbSXX1CB7CBrKsy4xYUB6C74faROYBT0lcx8+AT”
And like Tom, I can’t find the transcript. Mr Ferriss taught me how to speed read. I prefer that cuz my mp3 player doesn’t have a fast-forward-play.
Have a great weekend!
Jae
PS: I emailed you too.

Frank T. - Shiyaning
5 years 6 months ago

Yo Jae!

In fact there is a program called F4. It is quite useful since it is made for writing transcripts. You can speed up any mp3 if you are interested to do so;)

I do use it for my interviews, otherwise they would take about 20-30% longer to write down.

Joseph Dantes
5 years 6 months ago
I thought this interview would be YOU interviewing a PUA guy to get psychological insights applicable to personal finance. Instead it’s a PUA guy interviewing you about finance, with almost nothing about PUA. Pretty disappointing. Here’s the big win you COULD have had if you’d actually been interviewing a PUA about PUA knowledge applicable to personal finance: What guys really want can cost next to nothing, as far as personal fulfillment. Yet because they don’t understand Game, they wind up spending tons of money to try to fill that hole. (lol.) A basic knowledge of personal finance automation PLUS a… Read more »
Ramit Sethi
5 years 6 months ago

Nice comment.

Why don’t you put together a guest post outline and send it over? I’m always open to extraordinary outside contributions.

Joseph Dantes
5 years 6 months ago
Alright. Here are a few ideas I just brainstormed, I’ll make the proper guest post outline when I get the chance. minimizing cost of going out LSS posts on dominating different types of clubs, getting most everything comped, costs of going out leveraging PUA for access to rich guys pimp game, lifestyle application, reversing the flow of money & value reversing the value paradigms, no longer being the provider avoiding the “buy me a drink” trap lifestyle design, going overseas, geoarbitraging girls not drinking when out skittles man narciso 3/5 alpha/beta strategy as applied to gifts appearing wealthy on a… Read more »
Holly
Holly
5 years 6 months ago

Um, yikes. Can you maybe not talk about Roosh? He definitely falls into the “sleazy dirtbag” category. Looking up “narciso 3/5 alpha/beta strategy as applied to gifts,” first post is a blog post on being “cruel” to women, by a guy who describes himself as a misogynist and a racist. Stuff like this is why everybody hates pick-up artists.

Joseph Dantes
5 years 6 months ago

[NOTE FROM RAMIT]

Another comment deleted — this time for being needlessly offensive.

Joseph, the misogyny is not cool. Take it elsewhere.

Joseph Dantes
5 years 6 months ago

Ok, your thread, your rules.

Anyway, I’d misremembered the stat.

I calculated the statistics from the study from scratch (nobody had done it) and emailed you the correction.

Peter
5 years 6 months ago

Hi Ramit,
If you want to reach more young men interested in self improvement and PUA, I would highly recommend checking out The 21 Convention. I attended last year and besides the usual pickup coaches, they had high quality speakers in health, exercise, and other fields. It’s also run by a great, young guy named Anthony who started it during college.

Jordan Harbinger
5 years 6 months ago

Great post. Glad it’s sparked discussion here.

We’d be happy to do another interview about the crossover between PUA and your concepts. There’s great overlap in how what you teach here and in your book can be applied to personal growth in general, even with respect to social dynamics as we apply it at The Art of Charm.

-Jordan

Stephanie Taylor Christensen
5 years 6 months ago
First of all, I kind of chuckle at the thought of you mentioning the “market segment” of pick-up artists. I was a marketer for ten years, and have worked in publishing, and can only imagine what was going through their minds. With all due respect, they definitely talked about your behind your back afterwards at happy hour that evening. 🙂 Secondly, I truly do appreciate your out of the box mentality, but honestly, I don’t think it even necessitates an interview to support the connection. A successful PUA understands the importance of information gathering, human motivation and is confident. Those… Read more »
Angela
Angela
5 years 6 months ago

I’m actually fascinated with pickup artists, and I’m about to listen to the interview. VH1 had a show that aired for two seasons called, appropiately, The Pickup Artist. I love that it teaches men with no confidence, some who have NEVER even kissed a woman, how to flirt and be engaging! I love watching it and seeing it work. Yes, some of the men on the show have become pompous a-holes, but for the most part, you can see how grateful they are to have learned some basic social skills. I love it.

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Nick
5 years 6 months ago
I don’t know; I kind of think these two topics are inter-related (PUA and finance) but I think there is something more to it. I mean, look at Tony Robbins and his x-wife situation. I admired the guy, who doesn’t – for years he talked about his amazing wife and then one day – gone. Here is a super successful guy that mastered one (finance) but couldn’t do the other. Obviously “getting out” worked for him, but not without facing destruction first…I guess one might say that the parallels exist in finance, you lose one investment – learning in the… Read more »
Zoe Lindsey
5 years 6 months ago
Ramit, I always enjoy your blog, because whether I agree with any specific piece of advice you give, it is always a) honest and unassuming, without fear of offending people’s sensibilities, and b) actionable. And really, it doesn’t matter whether -I- agree with what you say – what doesn’t do it for me may well inspire action in someone else, and that’s what really matters. Your blog didn’t help me start improving my financial situation, but it DOES help me continue to do so when every other part of me wants to take a day off. Starting has never been… Read more »
Richard
Richard
5 years 5 months ago
PUA stuff, when from the right providers, is a wonderful tool to help men lacking in social skills to finally learn how to successfully interact with women. The show “The Pickup Artist” on VH1 was based on Mystery, and his Venusian Arts company. They focus on self-improvement and teaching about sociology, psychology, dating, and mating. They reference many books, including “The Anatomy of Love”, by Helen Fisher, and many others that teach about why we are the way we are. Also, I want to point out that these guys teach that if you are just going out with the intent… Read more »
Holly
Holly
5 years 5 months ago
“The fear, disgust, bashing, etc towards PUA stuff is from women that are afraid that they are losing their main advantage to holding some form of power over men” I don’t think so, Richard. It’s more a worry that most PUAs are like the worst PUAs – manipulative and misogynistic. I’ve read some stuff that literally says women are trash and should be taken advantage of. I’ve also read The Game and know they’re not all like that. It has nothing to do with “losing power,” it’s just that we’ve heard more noise from the PUAs who call women trash… Read more »
Imelda
Imelda
5 years 5 months ago

FYI, Richard, many men “have no idea how hard it is for some” women to interact with men.

And “Women hold all the cards when it comes to dating and mating”? Give me a break, what decade are you living in? I didn’t think people still said things like that. No one holds all the cards in dating or mating, and if women did, we’d be living in a very different world.

Sorry this is so far off-topic from PF, but I think there should be another POV to balance out Richard’s foolish remarks.

sambista77
sambista77
5 years 6 months ago
As a junior high dropout atheist, frothing at the mouth to become self employed and location independent, this Blog is now my “Bible” and I read it “religiously”. PUA (Soft skills) on the other hand, is something I think I was born a master in, it’s a gift, and I was blessed with it. Tim Ferriss says “Blessings become curses” and so they do. Wanting to create an income from an Internet based business, especially at this point (I barely dipped my toes in the water), is not about being charming and having charisma, as the computer screen can’t care… Read more »
Joba
Joba
5 years 5 months ago
A couple years ago I was suddenly dumped after 7 years of a relationship. Sitting home saddened for a week I stumbled upon a PUA site and made the decision (action) right then to take an infield bootcamp they offered in NYC. Spent a 3-day weekend with 3 others guys and two “coaches” – one of the best investments of my life. Without going into details, in a nutshell what we were told was to “take action” – first night (after a 4 hour day seminar on behavior etc.) our “goal” was to go up (either voluntarily or forced by… Read more »
daniel
5 years 5 months ago

It’s fine to want to improve your “skills” with the ladies. But it is another to scam people into believing you can teach them anything, while you got nothing to show for it..
http://www.puahate.com/showthread.php?t=3123

BY FAR, it would be cheaper to just copy a friend of yours who is good with people and girls. PUA companies offer no true value.

Richard
Richard
5 years 5 months ago
There are always good products and bad products and scams. It just takes research and some logic to weed them out. As for PUA stuff, it works, as long as you are learning from the right teachers. Neil, Mystery and his crew are very good at what they do, and have the right attitudes. If you read their stuff, they hardly ever take women home that night. They even say to take her out once or twice after meeting before trying to have sex. Many of them want relationships, and what they have learned has allowed them to have relationships… Read more »
Michael
5 years 5 months ago

It must have been a thought that struck almost anyone who has tried anything entrepreneurial when they first read The Game – the applicability of the principles and techniques in that book to life in general. Even to things not involving people directly. Good to see it being expanded on. Of course, as pointed out in many of the comments, it has to be taken with a grain of salt for what it is. I especially liked the observation in The Game that the techniques worked better the more intelligent the girl was…

Daniel
Daniel
5 years 5 months ago
Richard, You say that “Any guy who bashes it just makes himself look jealous, scared, and a little self-righteous” – that’s demagoguery, but nice try. I think you are the one that is scared. The fact is that in the PU “industry”, there is absolutely no way of telling if a person is actually good. Moreover, for beginners, they have no way of judging that anyway since they haven’t got the tools themselves. It is scam heaven. ALL PU companies make OUTRAGEOUS claims about the things they can provide to their students (hang out with models, etc..) . All I… Read more »
Joseph Dantes
5 years 5 months ago
“The fact is that in the PU “industry”, there is absolutely no way of telling if a person is actually good.” That’s not true. There’s plenty of in-field footage available online. Check out Krauser, for example. And you can watch them in person, for a price. And there’s plenty of forum chatter about who’s good and who’s not. And once you trust one of them, he’ll tell you who else is real and who’s not. That’s assuming you aren’t discerning enough to simply know from reading who’s real and who’s not. Basically, your claim is only true if you set… Read more »
Daniel
Daniel
5 years 5 months ago
Hey Joseph, I have seen the in-field footage and I have actually met the “big names” in the industry, believe it or not. I still claim that even in-field footage can’t be judged by beginners. Note the distinction I make. It would be pretty easy for me to come to high school pupils and convince them I am a mathematician by showing them how I can do multiple integration. But you say now, so what? beginners would be satisfied with doing just that. But that is not what they promise. They promise you will be a mathematician while they are… Read more »
Joseph Dantes
5 years 5 months ago

You are now backing wayyy off your initial claim:

“The fact is that in the PU “industry”, there is absolutely no way of telling if a person is actually good.”

And rightly so. It was indefensible.

I don’t care to argue further. I’m satisfied with the amount I’ve already made you backtrack, for very little effort.

Others can judge your credibility accordingly.

daniel
daniel
5 years 5 months ago

I am not backing, just misunderstood. At least quote me entirely: “The fact is that in the PU “industry”, there is absolutely no way of telling if a person is actually good. Moreover, for beginners”..

What credibility are you talking of? I am not selling anything in here and I don’t have a website I am promoting. Your response reeks of immaturity.

Best wishes, Daniel

Joseph Dantes
5 years 5 months ago

Now you’re just insulting everyone’s reading comprehension.

LK
LK
5 years 5 months ago

Hey Ramit,

As one of members of your Earn1K group, I’m still greatful for all these posts about finance and hustling.

Not all PUA are the same, and some of them don’t even call themselves that.

One person that I highly admire and look up to is David Wygant.

He’s the kinda of guy just like you actually.

Eleni
Eleni
5 years 5 months ago

So interesting when two completely unrelated areas are actually very related. Stresses the fact that everything matters.

And besides, we all love to be surprised.

Ameno
Ameno
5 years 5 months ago

Should we really refer to “guys who help other guys learn how to be more confident and get a girlfriend” as “pick up ARTISTS”?

Most great painters (those for whom their art actually pays their rent) don’t have much time to teach others how to paint. Similarly, most, if not all, art TEACHERS are teachers precisely because they weren’t successful enough as artists to be able to pay their rent with their art.

Those who can’t DO… TEACH.

yohami
5 years 5 months ago

Normally I agree with this point of view, but I find it off here

According to this Ramit must be a failure at saving money because he teaches it

Jess
Jess
5 years 5 months ago
I’ve never commented on your site before, but I’ve got to say this article struck a cord with me. I am a 22-year-old female college student from the Midwest. I have conservative values, attend church frequently, and think kissing on the first date is too soon. I’ve also been using pick up artist material as my primary business education for the past six months. How’d I get started? Long story short; I was the “subject.” Met him at a bar. Went on a double date with him and a friend following night-dinner and drinks. Liked him initially, then noticed idiosyncrasies.… Read more »
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