Comments on: Hybrid cars don’t save you money. Do the math! http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/ Personal finance blog for college students, recent graduates and everyone else -- including entrepreneurship -- for getting rich. Featured in the Wall Street Journal and New York Times. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:47:10 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Jay http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-101362 Jay Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:32:56 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-101362 No, no one forgot about the tax credit. Tax credits are only good on new designs and phase out as they are sold. All the hybrids mentioned above in the comments have long lost their tax credits. Only new cars like the Ford Fusion Hybrid ($1700 credit) will get tax credits until they are popular enough. I totally agree with the intent of this article. Even at $3.50 gas, for most people it does not make economic sense to get a hybrid vs. the same model with a standard ICE, unless they drive a lot of miles per year (30k+). The other factor is just about all hybrids are selling for MSRP. Many non-hybrids are being sold at steep discounts. No, no one forgot about the tax credit. Tax credits are only good on new designs and phase out as they are sold. All the hybrids mentioned above in the comments have long lost their tax credits. Only new cars like the Ford Fusion Hybrid ($1700 credit) will get tax credits until they are popular enough.

I totally agree with the intent of this article. Even at $3.50 gas, for most people it does not make economic sense to get a hybrid vs. the same model with a standard ICE, unless they drive a lot of miles per year (30k+). The other factor is just about all hybrids are selling for MSRP. Many non-hybrids are being sold at steep discounts.

]]> By: alexander http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-82634 alexander Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:01:26 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-82634 has anyone forgotten about the tax credit of 7,500.00 us dollars for hybrid vehicles??? has anyone forgotten about the tax credit of 7,500.00 us dollars for hybrid vehicles???

]]> By: Stickitinyergoozle http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-77491 Stickitinyergoozle Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:46:44 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-77491 I drive a 2005 Civic Hybrid and have learned how to drive it in a way to maximize fuel effeciency. I average 50 to 55 mpg by sticking to the slow lane and going 5 to 10 mph under the posted speed limit. Additionally, I coast to stoplights and stopsigns in situations when I don't have people trying to get around me. I am considerate of others and will not block up two-lane roads. Still, even with plenty of other lanes available on the roads I travel slower on, I will occassionally have an A-hole on my rear bumper wanting me to go faster. It usually turns out to be some dumb-A driving alone in a monster vehicle. These same type have the nerve to bitch about the cost of gas. Boo-Hoo for you! I drive a 2005 Civic Hybrid and have learned how to drive it in a way to maximize fuel effeciency. I average 50 to 55 mpg by sticking to the slow lane and going 5 to 10 mph under the posted speed limit. Additionally, I coast to stoplights and stopsigns in situations when I don’t have people trying to get around me. I am considerate of others and will not block up two-lane roads. Still, even with plenty of other lanes available on the roads I travel slower on, I will occassionally have an A-hole on my rear bumper wanting me to go faster. It usually turns out to be some dumb-A driving alone in a monster vehicle. These same type have the nerve to bitch about the cost of gas. Boo-Hoo for you!

]]> By: Alexis http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-75684 Alexis Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:26:21 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-75684 $2 a gallon? where do you live? the cost was $3.70/gall last time I checked. $2 a gallon? where do you live? the cost was $3.70/gall last time I checked.

]]> By: ItMakesSense http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-71349 ItMakesSense Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:24:09 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-71349 Yes, when I bought my "stripped down" Camry hybrid in June 2007 for $25,500 (less $625 credit before it completely expired Oct 2007) I conservatively estimated gas prices to be $2.85 per gallon, rising 5% per year. If you look at trends and read the news you knew gas prices could be expected to keep rising. Same for natural gas prices - they've gone up 8.4% annual average from Jan 1999 thru March 2008. I took Edmunds TCO costs of summer 2007. And guess what, assuming $2.85 gas with modest 5% annual increases the Camry hybrid was cheaper over 5 years than any V6 sedan with mid-range (LE trim or equivalent) over 5 years. Cheaper than Ford Fusion V6. Cheaper than Chevy Impala. Cheaper than any V6 sedan. Even though even my "stripped down" (no leather, no sunroof, no navigation screen) Camry hybrid at $25,500 came standard with premium JBL sound system with 6-CD changer, separate driver and passenger/rear seat climate controls, heated side mirrors, power seat, handsfree bluetooth for cellphone, and other features usually only found in the top Camry XLE trim. It's rated 34 mpg overall, however I average 37-38mpg during warm months, dropping as low as 30mpg during the very coldest months of Midwest winters. I have had three tanks of gas top 40 mpg this summer. Hybrids are not all created equal. The Honda Civic hybrid accelerates more slowly than the 4-cylinder version (10.7 seconds 0-60?) I initially thought that was what I want til I read Consumer Reports and other reviews. Car and Driver found the Camry hybrid went 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, about the same as the 2006 model year V6 Camry. The 2007-2009 Camry hybrid is rated higher reliability and satisfaction than either the 4-cylinder or V6 models. This spring USA Today reported that Camry hybrid pays for the hybrid premium in just 1.7 years now compared with Camry XLE - even faster than the Prius compared with the Corolla. But the Saturn Aura hybrid takes over 10 years to pay for premium hybrid. Repeat: NOT ALL HYBRIDS ARE CREATED EQUAL. I have got as high as 600 miles from one tank of gas (just over 16 gals for that fillup). Would I have a lower cost per mile if I bought a Toyota Corolla Sport for $17,000 or $18,000 instead of a Camry hybrid for $25,500? Sure I would. That was my third choice after the Prius and Camry hybrid. But it's not as nice a car as the Camry hybrid. All that sound insulation - practically no road or engine noise to speak of. Enough power that I can pull out on the freeway with confidence, and followed a truck up a mountain no sweat. So smooth and quiet that when I took it up to 105 mph passing my passengers didn't even look up and were completely surprised when I later told them how fast we had been going. How about depreciation? Let's see, I plugged in my "stripped down" trim package and mileage in Edmunds used cost calculator and see that if my car was sold today retail, it would sell on a lot for the same price I bought it new 14 months ago! If I sold it private, I would get about $1,000 less. That's not bad depreciation! Even at $2.85 gas, your calculations were lacking. And at $3.50 gas? I laugh your math! Yes, when I bought my “stripped down” Camry hybrid in June 2007 for $25,500 (less $625 credit before it completely expired Oct 2007) I conservatively estimated gas prices to be $2.85 per gallon, rising 5% per year. If you look at trends and read the news you knew gas prices could be expected to keep rising. Same for natural gas prices – they’ve gone up 8.4% annual average from Jan 1999 thru March 2008.

I took Edmunds TCO costs of summer 2007. And guess what, assuming $2.85 gas with modest 5% annual increases the Camry hybrid was cheaper over 5 years than any V6 sedan with mid-range (LE trim or equivalent) over 5 years. Cheaper than Ford Fusion V6. Cheaper than Chevy Impala. Cheaper than any V6 sedan. Even though even my “stripped down” (no leather, no sunroof, no navigation screen) Camry hybrid at $25,500 came standard with premium JBL sound system with 6-CD changer, separate driver and passenger/rear seat climate controls, heated side mirrors, power seat, handsfree bluetooth for cellphone, and other features usually only found in the top Camry XLE trim.

It’s rated 34 mpg overall, however I average 37-38mpg during warm months, dropping as low as 30mpg during the very coldest months of Midwest winters. I have had three tanks of gas top 40 mpg this summer.

Hybrids are not all created equal. The Honda Civic hybrid accelerates more slowly than the 4-cylinder version (10.7 seconds 0-60?) I initially thought that was what I want til I read Consumer Reports and other reviews. Car and Driver found the Camry hybrid went 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, about the same as the 2006 model year V6 Camry. The 2007-2009 Camry hybrid is rated higher reliability and satisfaction than either the 4-cylinder or V6 models. This spring USA Today reported that Camry hybrid pays for the hybrid premium in just 1.7 years now compared with Camry XLE – even faster than the Prius compared with the Corolla. But the Saturn Aura hybrid takes over 10 years to pay for premium hybrid. Repeat: NOT ALL HYBRIDS ARE CREATED EQUAL.

I have got as high as 600 miles from one tank of gas (just over 16 gals for that fillup).

Would I have a lower cost per mile if I bought a Toyota Corolla Sport for $17,000 or $18,000 instead of a Camry hybrid for $25,500? Sure I would. That was my third choice after the Prius and Camry hybrid. But it’s not as nice a car as the Camry hybrid. All that sound insulation – practically no road or engine noise to speak of. Enough power that I can pull out on the freeway with confidence, and followed a truck up a mountain no sweat. So smooth and quiet that when I took it up to 105 mph passing my passengers didn’t even look up and were completely surprised when I later told them how fast we had been going.

How about depreciation? Let’s see, I plugged in my “stripped down” trim package and mileage in Edmunds used cost calculator and see that if my car was sold today retail, it would sell on a lot for the same price I bought it new 14 months ago! If I sold it private, I would get about $1,000 less. That’s not bad depreciation!

Even at $2.85 gas, your calculations were lacking. And at $3.50 gas? I laugh your math!

]]> By: Ramya http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-70017 Ramya Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:20:46 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-70017 Now that gas prices are double... now approx 4$ I would imagine the no of years reduces to 6yrs...thats not so long ago.... what your article did not factor in was time. It should have read hybrid cars not viable for 2005!! or whenever u wrote this article...because what ur calc did not factor in was the depleting fossil fuels which equals to ever increasing costs.... Now that gas prices are double… now approx 4$ I would imagine the no of years reduces to 6yrs…thats not so long ago…. what your article did not factor in was time. It should have read hybrid cars not viable for 2005!! or whenever u wrote this article…because what ur calc did not factor in was the depleting fossil fuels which equals to ever increasing costs….

]]> By: David Shafer http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-64360 David Shafer Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:21:28 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-64360 Hey, I have two hybrids; 2003 Honda Civic and 2005 Honda Accord bought new. Got tax credits for both. My gas mileage is right on the listed amount. Mid 40's for the Civic with my driving mix and High 20's for the Accord with a trend toward more city driving. Just drove the Accord from Florida to New Hampshire (mostly highway) with the air on the whole time and averaged 37 MPG! Not bad for a 6 cylinder 255 horse car. Got the batteries replaced in the Civic for free under warranty (batteries take a beating in the Florida heat) with 73,000 miles on it. Civic has long ago gone positive as I only paid $17,000 for it. Accord is reaching that point soon. Gotta laugh at any analysis that forgot the possibility of gas prices rising. Wouldn't listen to anyone that doesn't factor in inflation. Sometimes experience helps with analysis, not that the young can't do it, just if you have seen the same advice before and seen it fail you are a little more astute to the negative possibilities. Hey, I have two hybrids; 2003 Honda Civic and 2005 Honda Accord bought new. Got tax credits for both. My gas mileage is right on the listed amount. Mid 40’s for the Civic with my driving mix and High 20’s for the Accord with a trend toward more city driving. Just drove the Accord from Florida to New Hampshire (mostly highway) with the air on the whole time and averaged 37 MPG! Not bad for a 6 cylinder 255 horse car. Got the batteries replaced in the Civic for free under warranty (batteries take a beating in the Florida heat) with 73,000 miles on it. Civic has long ago gone positive as I only paid $17,000 for it. Accord is reaching that point soon.

Gotta laugh at any analysis that forgot the possibility of gas prices rising. Wouldn’t listen to anyone that doesn’t factor in inflation. Sometimes experience helps with analysis, not that the young can’t do it, just if you have seen the same advice before and seen it fail you are a little more astute to the negative possibilities.

]]> By: Lynne Slattery http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-62834 Lynne Slattery Wed, 28 May 2008 04:28:02 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-62834 Don't know where you live, but gas prices haven't been anywhere near $2/gallon for years. Here in LA right now, they're at $4/gallon, and with the $3K tax credit we got on our Prius back in June of 2006, plus our carpool sticker (which also allows us to park for free at meters in LA and Santa Monica), we're doing well, and by your calculation, we've basically broken even in this second year of ownership. Besides all the great enviro benefits. Don’t know where you live, but gas prices haven’t been anywhere near $2/gallon for years. Here in LA right now, they’re at $4/gallon, and with the $3K tax credit we got on our Prius back in June of 2006, plus our carpool sticker (which also allows us to park for free at meters in LA and Santa Monica), we’re doing well, and by your calculation, we’ve basically broken even in this second year of ownership.

Besides all the great enviro benefits.

]]> By: Kris http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-62722 Kris Mon, 26 May 2008 16:49:45 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-62722 You are just showing new hybrids. I recently purchased a used 2001 Honda Insight for 11,000. I had been commuting 150 miles a day in my paid off 2000 Nissan Xterra. Since you are so fond of doing the math. Lets do it. The Nissan gets 16 mpg so my 3000 mile per month commute at $4.45 per gallon (I live in SoCal) is $834 per month in gas. With no car payment. I bought my Insight for $11K. My monthly payment is $190 a month. I now get 58 miles per gallon. Which has translated to $230 per month in gas. So my total monthly outlay now, with the Insight payment and the gas for it, is $420. This is a total savings of $414 a month, $4,966 a year and $24,830 over the length of the five year loan. More than enough to keep the vehicle dealer maintained, replace the "pricey" battery if needed and perhaps buy a second Insight. My advice to you is to DO YOUR RESEARCH! This does not even include the savings in time that comes from the HOV stickers which are now available only on used hybrids. In Southern California traffic this adds up quickly and is possibly even more substantial. So....Where is the downside?!?!?! You are just showing new hybrids. I recently purchased a used 2001 Honda Insight for 11,000. I had been commuting 150 miles a day in my paid off 2000 Nissan Xterra. Since you are so fond of doing the math. Lets do it. The Nissan gets 16 mpg so my 3000 mile per month commute at $4.45 per gallon (I live in SoCal) is $834 per month in gas. With no car payment. I bought my Insight for $11K. My monthly payment is $190 a month. I now get 58 miles per gallon. Which has translated to $230 per month in gas. So my total monthly outlay now, with the Insight payment and the gas for it, is $420. This is a total savings of $414 a month, $4,966 a year and $24,830 over the length of the five year loan. More than enough to keep the vehicle dealer maintained, replace the “pricey” battery if needed and perhaps buy a second Insight. My advice to you is to DO YOUR RESEARCH! This does not even include the savings in time that comes from the HOV stickers which are now available only on used hybrids. In Southern California traffic this adds up quickly and is possibly even more substantial. So….Where is the downside?!?!?!

]]> By: Grebby http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math/comment-page-1/#comment-62193 Grebby Tue, 20 May 2008 01:39:04 +0000 http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/hybrid-cars-dont-save-you-money-do-the-math#comment-62193 I forgot to add: the tax credit only applies for the first few years of a hybrid model, so the Civic would no longer qualify. I forgot to add: the tax credit only applies for the first few years of a hybrid model, so the Civic would no longer qualify.

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