hy

If you buy a MINI Cooper, the base model is $17,000 and you get much better gas mileage than that gasoline Civic. Sure, it’s a smaller car, but if you want to save the environment AND save money, go with the Cooper!

Annon

Also you should factor in the costs of replaing those pricey batteries in a few years after they wear out.

ffreak

You are missing something very important… You have missed the rest of the world In US you have got very cheap gas (many thanks to Bush for war in Iraq..). For example in my country – Poland (central EU) – 1gal costs about $5,90 (and it goes up). Not sure about east EU, but it will be more like a $5,90 than $2 – this I am sure. Now do the math again

marcus

Iam also living in a country with Prices of 1 Gallon +/- 6$. But beside this, it’s clearly not only a matter of saving money. Someone has to experiment with new technologies and Iam happy there are people who buy, for whatever reasons, hybrid cars. These people help to push new technologies and make it cheaper.

And with new energy saving technologies one can make a good business in the future. All the BRIC (Brasil, Russia, India and China) Countries grow heavy and need heaps of energy. So energy prices will go up further and alternative energy sources become very valuable. Do the math for the future, now!

greg

Ramit, fuel prices may change a lot too. Think about it, maybe in 8 years the fuel price is $4 a gallon or more. This is quite likely on current trends, and it could be even more if the US dollar slips a bit more.

JT

I think you’re also missing another opportunity here…I’m considering trading my Honda CR-V (with mileage of 22 mpg average) for a Hybrid Civic. My CR-V is only a model year 2003, and it didn’t lose a lot in depreciation. Consequently, I’ll be saving far more than just the significant difference in mileage, but as gas prices creep up this summer +$3/gallon in U.S., then I would actually be making a decent decision on the purchase. NOTE: the battery life is certainly an issue, but if I buy extended warranty, I’m covered…

Ryan

What about tax breaks in the US for having a Hybrid car?

Michael

Living in the UK, we have ungodly petrol prices (the latest price is around £0.98/litre, meaning about £4.4 per gallon; in dollars that is approxiatley $8.20…for a single gallon!). When hybrod cars were released the public jumped at the chance of buying cars that will give them increased MPG over their petrol quivalent. Very shortly after these costly mistakes motoring press reported that the cars would take 14 YEARS to recoup the extra money spent on them (the MSRP of a 2005 Toyota Prius is around £22,000or $40,000 US). After that there was an increase in the purchasing of Diesel vehicles; simply because they are becoming cheaper to buy next to the Priuses and Civic IMAs, while providing vastly suprior economy, good refinement, reasonably low emmissions and in some cars like the BMW 535d, incredible performance.

Bethany

I want a hybrid because I hate that we’re so dependent on oil. Good enough reason? lol

Van

In addition to the benefits to the environment and the financial savings in question, another major motivation for myself is the ability to legally drive solo in the carpool lane. Those interested had better act fast before all the permits are snapped up.

tree hugger

I’m buying a hybrid cuz I want to…how about that. Oh and do your research…no one have turn in their car for a battery replacement yet and it could last to more than 10 years. And gas prices are over $3 now. Its going to hit 4 by next winter.

Chris

The example you gave has a couple of flaws before you can start saying hybrids are poinless. First, using $2/gal for gas is now only a dream. In Washington, DC I haven’t paid less than $2.75 for over a year now. As gas prices increase the cost savings of a hybrid also increase.

Second, by averaging the city/hwy mileage you assume the driver is doing 50% city driving and 50% highway driving. The more you drive in the city the greater the cost savings of a hybrid.

Third, if anyone ever paid full price for ahybrid shame on them. I bought a brand new Civic Hybrid in 2005 for $19,000.

Lastly, hybrids are less costly to maintain and have a higher resale value (I can say that is true for my Civic Hybrid at least). Over the past 2 years I’ve spend $300 on maintence and the car is worth $16,900 according to KBB in good condition with 25,000 miles

Mohit Sood

Toyota Yaris is the way to go man. It costs you around $12K and gives 34/40 mpg. How much does Hybrid give you – 60/51 mpg (people say its actually less) for another $12K ! What would I buy, if I think like an Indian – Yaris .

Lisa

So does anyone know if it has been documented that a honda civic hybrid battery will definitely need replaced within 7- 8 years?? I would like to buy a used hybrid to save gas mileage yes, but mainly for the environment. However, I am only a school teacher and do not know if I could afford battery replacement if it is as expensive as I am hearing. I was told a minimum of 2,000 to as high as 6,000 and the price to have it installed also in the thousands. Does anyone know if this is true and the real costs of this??

LUBO

love the short-sighted capitalistic thinking. let’s see how much money you can save driving a ICE (internal combustion engine), when 1.5 billion chinese and 1.1 billion Indians start driving $2000 Tata’s and Cherry’s burning fossil fuel. But wait, Exxon and Ford just bought Ballard. No problem, capitalism to the rescue. But not before we are good and ready, let’s say, barrel of oil at $200. By then you’ll be begging for an alternative. But, just don’t run off and buy a condo in Florida. What’s not underwater will probably be blown to bits by hurricanes. Move to Canada, if you can get past the soldiers at the border, on both sides !!! Trick Question: When does $5 of energy cost $5.
Never ! For explanation, please see: Love Canal, Bhopal, Chernobyl, Iran-Iraq, your guess is as good as mine, stay tuned for more !!! We’ll see what President McCain has to say. (FEB 2008)

Samara

I didn’t realize this post was from 2005 haha. I kept reading it thinking… $2 for gas, where do these people live. I think gas is likely to go up to $4.50 w/in 6 months in the bay area (except that they might go down temporarily during the elections so people don’t think they are being squeezed and vote grumpy). Gas goes up about a dollar a year.

I’m not sure how much more expensive Hybrids are now though.

Parveen

Hi Ramit,

Any changes in calculations after increase in Oil prices.
Also, for all these 12 years … do you really think Oil prices will remain the same and not increase further?

Grebby

2008 numbers:

Civic Sedan Civic Hybrid Sedan
25/36 mpg (city/hwy) 40/45 mpg (the EPA changed how they calculate mileage)

Split the difference on those mileage figures, and we’ll use
the following numbers for our calculations…
Civic Sedan Civic Hybrid Sedan
30.5 mpg 42.5 mpg

“They” say you drive 15,000 miles every year. To drive
that far, you’d have to buy
Civic Sedan Civic Hybrid Sedan
491.8 gallons of gas(15,000miles / 30.5mpg) 352.9 gallons of gas 15,000miles / 42.5mpg)

What does that cost you?
Civic Sedan Civic Hybrid Sedan
$1,844.25 (491.8gal x $3.75/gal) $1323.38 (352.9gal x $3.75/gal)

Hybrid owners save $520.87 on gas every year
($1,844.25 – $1323.38)

What do these cars cost?
Civic Sedan Civic Hybrid Sedan
$20,710 (highest trim level, automatic transmission) $22,600 (CVT)

The Civic Hybrid Sedan costs an additional $1,890
($22,600 – $20,710)

So how many years of “saving on gas” does it take to
actually start “saving money.”

$1,890 (how much more you paid for a hybrid car)
—(divided by)—
$520.87/year (how much you save on gas each year)

= 3.62854 years

So 3 years, 7.5 months. Before a 4-year loan is up, you’ve saved money. And you’ve kept 5 TONS of CO2 out of the atmosphere. (504 gallons saved x 19.4 lbs/gallon), and “invested” in technological innovation instead of oil.

Kris

You are just showing new hybrids. I recently purchased a used 2001 Honda Insight for 11,000. I had been commuting 150 miles a day in my paid off 2000 Nissan Xterra. Since you are so fond of doing the math. Lets do it. The Nissan gets 16 mpg so my 3000 mile per month commute at $4.45 per gallon (I live in SoCal) is $834 per month in gas. With no car payment. I bought my Insight for $11K. My monthly payment is $190 a month. I now get 58 miles per gallon. Which has translated to $230 per month in gas. So my total monthly outlay now, with the Insight payment and the gas for it, is $420. This is a total savings of $414 a month, $4,966 a year and $24,830 over the length of the five year loan. More than enough to keep the vehicle dealer maintained, replace the “pricey” battery if needed and perhaps buy a second Insight. My advice to you is to DO YOUR RESEARCH! This does not even include the savings in time that comes from the HOV stickers which are now available only on used hybrids. In Southern California traffic this adds up quickly and is possibly even more substantial. So….Where is the downside?!?!?!

David Shafer

Hey, I have two hybrids; 2003 Honda Civic and 2005 Honda Accord bought new. Got tax credits for both. My gas mileage is right on the listed amount. Mid 40’s for the Civic with my driving mix and High 20’s for the Accord with a trend toward more city driving. Just drove the Accord from Florida to New Hampshire (mostly highway) with the air on the whole time and averaged 37 MPG! Not bad for a 6 cylinder 255 horse car. Got the batteries replaced in the Civic for free under warranty (batteries take a beating in the Florida heat) with 73,000 miles on it. Civic has long ago gone positive as I only paid $17,000 for it. Accord is reaching that point soon.

Gotta laugh at any analysis that forgot the possibility of gas prices rising. Wouldn’t listen to anyone that doesn’t factor in inflation. Sometimes experience helps with analysis, not that the young can’t do it, just if you have seen the same advice before and seen it fail you are a little more astute to the negative possibilities.

ItMakesSense

Yes, when I bought my “stripped down” Camry hybrid in June 2007 for $25,500 (less $625 credit before it completely expired Oct 2007) I conservatively estimated gas prices to be $2.85 per gallon, rising 5% per year. If you look at trends and read the news you knew gas prices could be expected to keep rising. Same for natural gas prices – they’ve gone up 8.4% annual average from Jan 1999 thru March 2008.

I took Edmunds TCO costs of summer 2007. And guess what, assuming $2.85 gas with modest 5% annual increases the Camry hybrid was cheaper over 5 years than any V6 sedan with mid-range (LE trim or equivalent) over 5 years. Cheaper than Ford Fusion V6. Cheaper than Chevy Impala. Cheaper than any V6 sedan. Even though even my “stripped down” (no leather, no sunroof, no navigation screen) Camry hybrid at $25,500 came standard with premium JBL sound system with 6-CD changer, separate driver and passenger/rear seat climate controls, heated side mirrors, power seat, handsfree bluetooth for cellphone, and other features usually only found in the top Camry XLE trim.

It’s rated 34 mpg overall, however I average 37-38mpg during warm months, dropping as low as 30mpg during the very coldest months of Midwest winters. I have had three tanks of gas top 40 mpg this summer.

Hybrids are not all created equal. The Honda Civic hybrid accelerates more slowly than the 4-cylinder version (10.7 seconds 0-60?) I initially thought that was what I want til I read Consumer Reports and other reviews. Car and Driver found the Camry hybrid went 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, about the same as the 2006 model year V6 Camry. The 2007-2009 Camry hybrid is rated higher reliability and satisfaction than either the 4-cylinder or V6 models. This spring USA Today reported that Camry hybrid pays for the hybrid premium in just 1.7 years now compared with Camry XLE – even faster than the Prius compared with the Corolla. But the Saturn Aura hybrid takes over 10 years to pay for premium hybrid. Repeat: NOT ALL HYBRIDS ARE CREATED EQUAL.

I have got as high as 600 miles from one tank of gas (just over 16 gals for that fillup).

Would I have a lower cost per mile if I bought a Toyota Corolla Sport for $17,000 or $18,000 instead of a Camry hybrid for $25,500? Sure I would. That was my third choice after the Prius and Camry hybrid. But it’s not as nice a car as the Camry hybrid. All that sound insulation – practically no road or engine noise to speak of. Enough power that I can pull out on the freeway with confidence, and followed a truck up a mountain no sweat. So smooth and quiet that when I took it up to 105 mph passing my passengers didn’t even look up and were completely surprised when I later told them how fast we had been going.

How about depreciation? Let’s see, I plugged in my “stripped down” trim package and mileage in Edmunds used cost calculator and see that if my car was sold today retail, it would sell on a lot for the same price I bought it new 14 months ago! If I sold it private, I would get about $1,000 less. That’s not bad depreciation!

Even at $2.85 gas, your calculations were lacking. And at $3.50 gas? I laugh your math!

Stickitinyergoozle

I drive a 2005 Civic Hybrid and have learned how to drive it in a way to maximize fuel effeciency. I average 50 to 55 mpg by sticking to the slow lane and going 5 to 10 mph under the posted speed limit. Additionally, I coast to stoplights and stopsigns in situations when I don’t have people trying to get around me. I am considerate of others and will not block up two-lane roads. Still, even with plenty of other lanes available on the roads I travel slower on, I will occassionally have an A-hole on my rear bumper wanting me to go faster. It usually turns out to be some dumb-A driving alone in a monster vehicle. These same type have the nerve to bitch about the cost of gas. Boo-Hoo for you!

Jay

No, no one forgot about the tax credit. Tax credits are only good on new designs and phase out as they are sold. All the hybrids mentioned above in the comments have long lost their tax credits. Only new cars like the Ford Fusion Hybrid ($1700 credit) will get tax credits until they are popular enough.

I totally agree with the intent of this article. Even at $3.50 gas, for most people it does not make economic sense to get a hybrid vs. the same model with a standard ICE, unless they drive a lot of miles per year (30k+). The other factor is just about all hybrids are selling for MSRP. Many non-hybrids are being sold at steep discounts.